Three Do Who S3E9-UNIT Part 2

This episode dives into the uncertain future of Doctor Who, unpacking the BBC’s tender process, the political and industry forces behind it, and what a possible long hiatus could mean for the show’s next era. We then each discuss our favorite UNIT heavy episodes, and we have some fun with playlists.

Chapters

Who News 02:39

Main Topic 30:59

Who Knows Trivia 56:21

This podcast contains adult language and adult subject matter and is rated M for mature. Listener discretion is advised. 

Closing audio

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:40

They'll get there eventually. I don't know. Somebody comes up with a good idea and then it breaks three other things. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Yeah. Someone came up with the idea of England, and we broke three other countries. Three? Only three.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

A week. A week. A week, a week. Okay. I was gonna say, three is uh I remember there was a time when the sun didn't set on the British Empire.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah, because God didn't trust the British in the dark. There is that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

Okay. Welcome to Three Do Who, the monthly Doctor Who podcast, where we talk about all things Doctor Who. With me today are my two favorite Hoobians, Mike and James. How are you two doing? Oh, just Ducky.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I'm I'm suffering in what is definitely not anything to do with climate change or anything. No. Um we we're halfway through the month and we have already broken six heat records for this month. Yeah. Yeah. Can I come to do this live with you where you have snow?

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Yes, actually we since we had uh light dusting of snow out by the fjords this morning, and that was it. By the fjords?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yes. Designing for the fjords? Yes. I'm I'm I'm gonna do the Homer Simpson thing soon of putting a tent in front of the open door of the freezer.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:55

Just uh somebody over there in England uh piped, found out that their car's air conditioning, they are there, they have an electric car, piped their car's uh air conditioning into the house and just ran their car with it plugged in the whole time because they didn't have an air conditioner. But it cooled the house by about four or five degrees, which is it's something. That's yeah, that seems to be a waste of uh anyway. Well, anyway. I mean, probably no worse than running an air conditioner for energy-wise, because you're just charging up a battery pack. And it's 220, so a lot less uh expensive to run. But who knows? Yeah, who knows? Um, so should we get on to some who news?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yes, because we've we've we've we've got a kind of a teeny tiny development, haven't we, to discuss?

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Yeah, just what needs to be. So, yeah, it's been it's been a bit since we talked to you. And uh back last time when we talked, it was uh kind of optimistic that things were gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

And rumor central and all these YouTubers had had exclusive leaks, and yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Yeah, and they were all wrong. So as many of you know will no doubt already know, Doctor Who is being put out to competitive tender. Uh sometime later this year is when they're expecting to do it. Uh, and I think they they do have rules apparently about you know how long they can wait to do it. So I think uh they're pushing it out to the last minute, it seems like. Um, so they've started the BBC have to say that their desire to put in a strong bid to become the show's new runner. Uh again. So that they're already the runner.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

I mean, okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

I will provide some background once I've done the message. Yes, and that that's what I'm that's what I'm going for. So uh so what exactly does this all mean? Well, realistically, we're looking at probably a two to three break, a two to three-year break on this uh before we see the doctor back on television again. I mean, there may be some specials here and there, uh like circuit breaker uh and stuff with previous doctors. Yeah, it's it's apparently not being received very well, but we'll talk about that in a little bit too. Yeah. Um, so uh, you know, why two to three years? Um I mean, if they're putting it to tender at the at you know, at the end of the year, can't they just start it right back up? Well, not exactly. So tender process hasn't even started. Uh the new production company, whoever ends that, that ends up being, because BBC could lose the bid. I mean, it's very unlikely that they will because several other production companies uh that have been you know tapped to to maybe see if they're interested, have just plainly said no, not interested. Uh after the Disney debacle, a lot of them are pretty gun shy with trying to do Doctor Who again. Uh so uh they you know, we gotta get the new production company, sign on a new show writer, writers, actor, or new show runner, I'm sorry, writers, actors, set designer, special effects house, and filming crew. And on top of all of this, there also be a search for the new Doctor. Um, stories need to be written, new TARDIS interior built, or possibly moving the old one from Bad Wolf Studios. Nobody knows really what's going on with that. Um, but uh, you know, being as Bad Wolf is completely out of the running now for doing any of this, uh, I'm guessing that they want to reclaim that huge studio space that they had the Starlight Express interior in. Um, you know, and based on what happened to uh Star Trek, uh Starfleet Academy and uh Strange New Worlds, how they just stripped the sets as soon as production ended, I have a feeling that's probably already been started. Um yeah, all of this stuff takes time. Uh the announcement, uh the first announcement, the official one that the BBC uh put out, uh kind of also hinted that they're looking at changing the tone of the show a bit. Uh if you you know read into the corporate speak that they that they put out, it seems like they're, you know, we want to bring bring make Doctor Who great again, which ooh just kind of gave me a bit of a creepy chill to it. Uh let's let's just hope that uh you know stuff like that doesn't happen. But um yeah, uh there's a possibility that whoever wins the bid uh could shelf the show for a bit. Uh it depends on what the you know what the qualifications in the bid are for how soon they need to get started. Um but uh you know all this is to say, who knows? Uh but whatever happens, we'll be here to keep you informed about it. So, James, what what are your thoughts? Well, actually, one little thing after this too to talk about. So what are your thoughts on the whole competitive tender process?

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Um okay. So before we get into my thoughts, um Britain is not like America. Okay, and more importantly, Really?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

I'm shocked.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Um But but I have seen uh a very big shift in in the you know the climate there as far as the as far as political-wise that are starting to shift more conservative.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Um but the reason I'm saying this is in America you have kind of like your local stations, you've got the big countries like Fox and everything like that.

SPEAKER_05 7:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

We have got lots of companies who make TV shows in the UK. But a few years back, uh there was a change to the rules about the BBC. Um now the BBC is a pretty unique entity globally. Okay. Oh yes, definitely. Um we won't get into the kind of the debate about whether there should be this thing called the license fee or not. But basically, the BBC is the state broadcaster. And uh there have been all kinds of attempts to kind of break it up and everything. And one of the latest ones is to do with anti-competitive, anti-monopoly, anti-everything. So uh the BBC are now no longer based on their royal charter, because it is a royal charter, apparently. Yes, they're not allowed to just turn around and make dramas anymore. So basically the whole reason for the tender process is because that is what the BBC legally have to do. Okay. Right. Um now whether or not um you choose to believe that they're gonna word the kind of the paperwork and everything so that basically it says, you know, if you are not the BBC, we are not interested in your tender. Uh yeah. That is uh yet to be seen. Okay. Um but yeah, uh it's not that the BBC uh don't want to make it, because at least publicly they have showed support for it. They say they want to uh it's very unfortunate that in one of their press statements the kind of you know the the image they showed was of Peter Capaldi digging the grave from the hell to I saw that one, yes.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

It's like really um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Um and well, uh if you were around in the UK in the early 90s, you might recognise some of the wording um that the BBC are using from the previous time. There was a very slight break in production of 16 years or yeah. Um But as I said, it is not that the BBC have cancelled it or anything like that. It's they are legally obliged to put it out to tender. Um to give you an idea of how stupid things are getting on that front, um, there's been problems recently over here because the BBC have acquired Shit's Creek.

SPEAKER_05 10:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

And they're saying, well, that's anti-competitive. What it's been like four other streaming platforms in the UK, and the BBC showing it is apparently anti-competitive. Um yeah. And apparently, Eric, you're gonna love this. Guess what the other program is that's caused a lot of problems. Oh, yeah. Yeah, probably. Scooby-Doo. Oh! Oh no, apparently the BBC acquiring the rights to show some Scooby-Doo cartoons has caused a lot of fuss kind of thing. So yeah. A lot of things to get upset about. Yeah. The BBC would have got away with it if it weren't for those blasted animations. Uh so the point I'm trying to make is that you can't really blame the BBC for putting it out to tender because that is what they are obliged to do. Right. And yeah, as you said, there is a big movement in the UK trying to kind of stomp on non-conservative things. Yeah. Certain politicians have been against the BBC for decades. It's a great fiasco. Um as to my thoughts on it, okay, uh, how can I do this without just swearing about RTD?

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Um, well, I mean, uh a lot of this, uh a big portion of this, is his fault. Uh Showrunner, you're you're in charge of everything.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

My feelings are that we should kind of have a a rebooty type thing. Yes. I I think that's what's gonna have to be done. Yeah. And then maybe a couple of years down the line, do a throwaway gag about briefly being a busty blonde or something before you know, and just kind of it's really sad that yeah, whatever the intention was with the plot lines and everything, that it went really badly wrong. Um I don't think we will ever be allowed to know the full story. I I doubt it. The really sad thing, I mean, if you look at Millie Gibson on IMDb, yeah, her career has ended with Doctor Who, basically. Um that's I think the last entry that is on there. Well no, there was one other thing that she filmed round about the same time as Doctor Who, and then it just you know. So I think it went horrendously wrong. I don't think we will ever actually know. I think there will always be really shitty rumors about what happened.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

Well, I mean, look at look at how long it took for for Eccleston to you know finally just say, I'm just gonna tell you what it was. I hated RTD. Yeah, couldn't stand him.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Um what was that? That was six years, so 2025. 2031, maybe we might get a leak into the press. Might get an answer about what happened. Yeah. So I think realistically, we've just got to put it behind us now.

SPEAKER_05 13:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

And say, yeah, um it it didn't work. And more importantly, there is no point in trying to pick up the threads five years on from when we last saw them. Right.

unknown 13:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:39

With a different person trying to glue them together. And that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Yeah. Not to mention, uh, you know, two to three years, might be five years or more. Yeah, Billy is uh, you know, like all of us, aging. And she's not gonna look the same. Continuity-wise, it's gonna be very difficult to try and slot her in.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

I mean, let's face it, she didn't even really look or sound the same at the start of Deccleston compared to how she was the tenant.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Yeah, yeah. Um yeah. There was some some surgery. Some teeth issues. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah. Um so my feeling is that whoever it is, just clean slate and then once things are established, decide whether or not they're gonna even bother. Yeah. Don't listen to the fans. Don't you know certain fans are clamoring saying, oh yeah, part of the tender thing should be that they resolve the Susan plot line and resolve the bullets.

SPEAKER_05 14:43

Stop that.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

Oh, and then just let the half of them are half of them are like, uh uh, oh, we just need to have the fugitive doctor take over. And I'm like, you guys do realize that the show is out of production right now.

unknown 14:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Until there is a until there is a winner for the competitive tender, and until production gets up and running, even if they did want to slot her in to be the new doctor for the next season or two, it's not gonna happen quickly. Yeah. And you know, there may be she may have other uh contracts by that time and won't be available. Yeah. Uh basically different than the US, like you said.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

You can't just pick a job we want to go do. Doctor Who cannot be made at all until the tender process is complete. Yeah, there's no, oh, we'll just do this in the interim. You know, it is now officially legally out to tender. Um and yeah, it sucks. Um it's as you say, it is due to growing movements in this country, but that is for other podcasts to kind of.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

I mean, we're not gonna get into the the the political ramifications of you know conservative movements, but uh yeah, it does seem to be it does seem to be pretty uh bleak, uh pretty epidemic in in the in sci-fi right now. So uh I mean, and then go on to talk about that. Uh and you know, Star Trek is no longer in production, and after Strange New Worlds and Academy uh finish their uh run of episodes that they've already produced, uh there will be no live action track uh in production, in pre-production, or any of that. Um Paramount has mentioned what isn't there that movie or something that is supposed to be oh okay. That's all fan speculation and rumor. Unfortunately, especially on Facebook, uh there are about six billion Star Trek fan clubs, and they all think that they have the answer of what's going on at Paramount, and none of them are reading any of the actual statements from Paramount. So Paramount has actually mentioned that their plans to uh replace Star Trek uh is to just rerun the 2004 Battlestar Galactica series. Uh because it fits more in line with the conservative uh you know movement here right now. It's it's a war, it's gritty, it's it's uh it doesn't have you know any of these faffin gay characters and stuff. It's uh yeah. Although it did have a gay character, Annette Boomer was uh reportedly gay if I remember right. It's been a while since I've watched the series. So my Mia Culpa if I've screwed that up. Um Amazon have canceled their planned Stargate SG1 reboot, and it was well into pre-production, and they were getting you know very close to uh getting ready to start production on it. Uh, and that was because they felt it was too centered on the existing fan base and didn't pander enough to new fans. We want new fans. Well, you know, with a franchise like Doctor Who, Star Trek, Stargate, you do need to bring in some of the original fans to to stoke the fires, as it were. Yeah. And by by saying we're just gonna completely redesign Stargate and and we want something new and fresh, and if you're not gonna do that, then we're canceling the contract. And that's what they did. Um, so yeah, that's three of the hugest pillars of of modern sci-fi uh that are all right now out of production. So hold on.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

It's yeah. No, no, no. Because we are forgetting one thing, and there is something very weird going on with Doctor Who that we've forgotten to talk about. Oh yes, this the CBB's uh animation. And we still haven't seen stills from it. It's gone very quiet, and no one seems to know what is going on with it. Technically, it is still green lit. Technically, it was commissioned before the whole fiasco. So technically, that is still a going concern. Yeah. Whether or not it gets brushed underneath the rug is another matter, but yeah, yeah, there is still a that is still a live project as far as everyone's.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Screen lit, it's it's it's just uh right now. Nobody knows what's going on. They've been able to keep a really tight lid on it. Um, I mean, I will give props to Netflix and Sony for uh the new Ghostbusters cartoon that is slated to come out next year. Um the they showed some previews of it at one of the Comic Cons uh or one of the the you know uh animation cons. I can't remember which one it was. Uh but uh apparently uh the the clip that they showed from it was widely well received, and it looks like uh it's gonna be a hit. Uh they are not pandering to children with it. This is not a kid's show. This is going to be a Ghostbusters fans uh What Happened Between Ghostbusters 2 and Afterlife. And it's with a new crew. Uh it's called Ghostbusters Night Shift. Uh and uh yeah, they're a new crew of they're the night crew for for the Ghostbusters. Uh and it's it's the animation is scary. Uh, there's some you know some good frights in it, and a lot of the same type of humor that uh you know Brightman is known for. Uh and you know his uh his son is actually in the production crew on this. So it's so yeah, so it's it's a big plus.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

If it's looking good, it's well written, well reading.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Yeah, Netflix will cancel it after after a season. But yeah, the fact that Sony, the fact that Sony is backing it uh is a good sign because Netflix isn't ponying up all the money for this. Good. Uh so it the it'll be a lot harder for them to cancel it if the ratings are good. Um excellent. Which is uh it that does my heart good because at least we've got Ghostbusters kind of holding up the you know the sci-fi franchises that we all love. Um I mean Ghostbusters is definitely one of the smallest of the pillars, uh based on just it's a tiny pillar. Yeah, because they've had two two cartoons and uh yeah, but both of those were the morning cartoons that were based on they were, yeah, they were not meant for adults, uh although adults loved them. Um I've rewatched a couple of them and they hold up pretty well, actually. Um, but yeah, so on to some slightly better news. Uh Doctor Who unveiled the new Sonic screwdriver, and it pays a tribute to the classic iconic one by looking like a pen light.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Uh and like a screwdriver. It's like one of those multi-tapped screwdrivers.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

It does look like they went down to the to the local hardware store, ripped the screwdriver out, and stuck some lights and stuff in. Right at the end of it, yeah. Yeah. Um, no offense to Joe, but uh it's not my favorite. It's better, though, than Jody's. That's all I'm gonna do. Come on, Jody's rotated.

SPEAKER_01 22:00

It had three settings. It's also better than and it looked like a silver turd. I didn't like shooty's which looked like

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Like a remote control for I didn't like RTD's excuse for making it look like a remote control is oh he's black and people are gonna be afraid of a black man pointing something at them like a gun.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah um yeah short circuit um yeah let's let's talk about that before I get into my feelings about it should I tell you something brilliant? Yes, yes. Because I actually thought that there I can't remember if I said this before. I actually thought that there was a second set of stories with the Fugitive Doctor. Um because one of my friends was reading a foreign language site about it. Because it's still global. Um yeah. Unfortunately, my friend had used the auto-translate function from Chrome what it was. Yes. And it had translated circuit breaker as fuse. Uh yeah. So my friend has almost convinced me that yeah, there was a new fugitive one called Doctor Who Fuse. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Uh that's bless their heart. I mean, um, yeah, it's so far from what I've read, it's not really shaping up as the big kind of thing that they were hoping it would.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

I think the problem is it was designed as a filler between now and the Christmas special. Christmas special, yes. Which has of course been pulled. Um there are a few other problems. So, first off, there are continuity issues between it and the big finish releases featuring the Joe Martin Doctor. Um so not only do we have this previously unknown version of the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, we now seemingly have two sets of continuity. Um there is of course the the suggestion that Oh, she just has her mind wiped at the end of this one, and you know. Um the uh there's uh what's been kind of like known become known on Blue Sky as either the big fingers dartboard or the Doctor Who bingo sheet. Yeah. Because yeah, um they've now released details of the book called Kaleidoscope, which Joe Martin has written, and it's got Martha in it, and it's like they're saying, well, basically all they're doing is they're just kind of like going, right, we'll have Doctor, oh, and oh, okay, we're having this doctor, and we'll pull the companion out there, okay, with Martha encountering me here. Right. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

It was Martha and the TARDIS with the sonic screwdriver all along. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

What she did in her bedroom on her own is nothing is none of our business. It's got three settings. Three settings, yeah. Um and then there is the other issue that has raised a few eyebrows. Um so in the early 90s, um you know, we had the the new adventures. And okay, early 90s, you know, but they were £4.90 £4.99, okay. And basically you scale that up to 2026 money, and I think it works out at I think it works out at about 12 quid or something. Still, yeah, but yeah, but then you look at how much, okay, because I have one of them next to me by chance. One of the shooty novels. Um and bearing in mind that this is like maybe two at most two-thirds the length of the Virgin New Adventures, more like half the length of some of them. And this was actually £15. Okay. Amazon have now got uh Kaleidoscope listed with a regular retail price of £22. Um and yeah, it's not got a you know, it's it's got a few more pages than this, but not yeah. So yeah, I sat down if you go with the download only options for the audio stuff, the grand total for circuit breaker in UK money is just short of 80 quid. Which works out very roughly at about $120. Yeah.

unknown 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Um And there are certain murmurings about this is the third one of these, none of them have been received well. You know. Um why do we keep doing this? And yeah. And as I it's just unfortunate that now it was looking very much like the filler for the before the Christmas special, and now it is kind of lost that yeah. Um so it's causing a few interests.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

People are looking at it kind of like a life preserver right now, and it's it's it's uh not. A pay a pay-per-view life server, like pay-per-view lifesaver. Um well, it's it's it's like uh it's like Rose uh kicking uh DiCaprio off the door. Uh yeah, you can come up here, but you've got to pay.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

And as I said, it's the fact that there's Osgood involved, there's lot you know, that there's Daleks involved, and it's just like it is really, you know, a lot of people are saying they're not interested in it just because it's it looks too much like a pick and mix.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Who who can we throw together for it? Um and as we've said, two to three years before the next episode, probably it's like, you know, is this what we're gonna get from the BBC every year? Some kind And also, I mean, you know, there's computer game elements. If you want the full story, you've gotta play you've got to play those online bloody games. I know. Um I don't know what the solution is. Um there isn't really one.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

No.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Uh I mean, there's alcohol is a solution. Yeah, alcohol is a solution. Yeah. For those of us that drink. Because the other the other thing is, you know, when the original wilderness years started, Seventh Locke and Eight weren't written out at the end of the classic TV series, so they were able to just slot straight into the books. Um and there was something to carry on with and in the comic strips and everything. DWM, you know, the there's a um one of the graphic novel compilations, uh, the the trade paper's coming out, and it's been advertised as the final collection of 15th Doctor strips. Well, I mean Um what's gonna happen next?

SPEAKER_03 29:18

Uh uh who knows. I guess they're gonna go back to uh the older Doctors.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Well, DWM is running a is running a circuit breaker comic strip next issue, but then after that, it's just like ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

Yeah, uh, I mean, that's the that's the other thing. Uh there there are a lot of uh other industries that rely on Doctor Who that have grown up over the you know over the years, and with no new who coming from you know television, it's it's gonna be rough for them. They're gonna have to scrape uh the bottom of the barrel and and pick up some ideas.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah, there's there's a lot of people who are looking very nervously at the expanded universe saying, this is not looking good.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

You know, it's it's my opinion after the the whole debacle with uh 15 that yeah, that let's just not Height of the Wilderness Years.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Height of the Wilderness Years, there were 24 novels coming out a year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Great.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Um Well, I mean, we've still got 14 other doctors that uh they can write books about.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

And I'll mention something about those later on. Right. Yeah. Anything else on the news front? No. Uh sadly, that's all I can say about today. That's probably gonna be the longest news segment for the next two to three years.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Great. Yeah. Um, unfortunately, I think it I think it probably will be.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Uh we may switch things up and and uh only do news specials for I've I've got I've got a switching up idea, which I'll get to uh which I've run past you, but Mike is a bit clueless about.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

All right. Right. So let's uh let's get into the main topic. Uh so because we felt that one episode about unit was not punishment enough, dear viewers, you can decide who's being punished, you or us. Uh, but we decided we decided to do a part two and give you each our favorite unit episodes. So just remember, unit is basically 60 years old next year. Oh, yeah. I mean it's about the same age as Doctor Who. So um Imagine that, you know.

SPEAKER_05 31:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Uh and it is actually one of my favorite little, you know, side characters. I I consider Unit a group companion.

unknown 31:31

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

The Doctor. Um, but uh so my favorite unit episode and fourth doctor episode is Hands Down Robot. Um, it's the fourth doctor's first episode. It begins with his regeneration from the third doctor, which I gotta say, I watched it again, and it's probably one of the nicest regenerations uh from the time period. It's really well done. It's uh because Pertui and him have a very similar nose, uh, when they do the fade between the two of them, there's almost none of that weird shifting that you have to get, you know, with with the some of the other regenerations. It's a very smooth, like well-done regeneration. I was I was impressed. It was simple, it was uh it was they didn't you know add a whole lot of uh you know overdrawn special effects and stuff like that. I I thought it was really good. And considering the budget that they probably had to work with for for that uh series, because uh robot has a gigantic, really nice looking robot for the time period, uh, that probably cost them a pretty penny. And so I'm guessing that uh you know scaling back the budget for the regeneration was a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Bearing in mind they spent it all on the giant robot. Oh, yeah. Are we gonna are we gonna mention the tank?

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Uh oh yeah, it's there's the tank. Well, yeah, I forgot about that too. But uh yeah, they they did spend a lot of money on it. And uh uh it like I said, it looked good. It's it's uh it's a very good looking episode, it still holds up pretty well. Uh, I didn't watch all four of the things over again because I just did not have uh that kind of time with running all the other stuff I'm doing. Uh, but I did hit some clips from it and I'm like, wow, it it still holds up pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Um it's kind of worrying because the whole plot of it is about the rise of the right wing. Yeah, yeah. Oh, science fiction warned us. What are the chances of that happening?

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Yeah, so anyways, the eponymous robot from the title uh breaks into the MOD, steals the plans for a disintegrator gun, which I'm sure, James, I'm sure you'll back me up on this, is a weapon that no one should ever build. It's definitely a war crime. Don't do it. Uh please, sci-fi writers, stop using disintegrators and vaporizers. Vaporizing a person isn't only bad for them, bad way for them to go. It's a bad way for anyone in the nearby vicinity to go. Yeah, how does it know when to stop? Right. Right. Okay, let's just assume you're superheating somebody to the point where they vaporize. Considering that the human body is mostly water, what's gonna happen to all that water when it vaporizes? It turns into a big steam explosion. Uh you're gonna have bits and pieces and hot steam human all over the place. Broiling everybody in the vicinity. Uh there's just no good way to this. Uh, there's a lot of people who like online like are like, oh, well, it does this, it knows when to stop because it's using a specific no. Technically, there is no way that this can work without being a violent, horrible, horrible ending for the person shooting and the person getting shot.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

My my favorite comment on it was, oh, oh, it just it finds it hits the first thing and then it stops. It's like, great. So basically it's a naked ray. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:49

So then their clothing would just go away. Yeah. I am not opposed to having a naked ray, but uh more on that in a different podcast. But uh, so yeah. So after he steals the plan, he kills a guard uh and uh scares his dog away, which for some reason that was a a huge plot point that they had to put into the uh the synopsis when I was going back and looking at the synopsis. Is he kills the guard and scares the dog away. I mean, the poor dog. Okay. At least he didn't disintegrate the dog. Yeah, yeah. Uh well, he didn't have a disintegration ray at this point. He just had the plans for the disintegration rate. Uh-huh. So the robot breaks into another facility and steals more parts for the center for the disintegrator gun. Uh Sarah uh visits think tank, a pure research facility, uh, and suspects that the robot may be Professor Kettlewell's work and goes to see him. Kettlewell's like, nah, no way, that's it, that couldn't be mine. Uh, they wouldn't continue my research. They couldn't. Uh so Sarah does what she does best, and she puts herself in danger by sneaking back into Think Tank. Uh she gets scared by K1, the robot, which, hmm. Does that mean that K9 is a Kettlewell-designed robot?

SPEAKER_00 36:06

I've told I've told you about the spoof from the 80s, haven't I? Possibly. Where the doctor was supposed to have a pet cat called Kit 10.

SPEAKER_03 36:14

Yeah, Kit 10. Yes. That's it's a it's it's a wonder, you know, because they had K1 in the very first episode of the Fourth Doctor's run, and then he ends up with K9 later on. I'm wondering if No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

There's a there is a K theme throughout the Fourth Doctor in one of the comic strips. No, no, in one of the comic strips, um which America calls City of the Cursed, I think, because the real name is City of the Damned.

SPEAKER_03 36:41

Um we did the comic books uh thing at the time, yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Because yeah, there's a food substance in there which is a jelly called K. There is all no no no no no no there is a second dessert jelly called Y. Okay. They they they couldn't get the title past the sensors, but they got a KY jelly joke past them. Nice. Nice. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

But yeah, so yeah. K1 uh looms towards her, towards poor Sarah Jane and uh demands to know who she is and why she's there. Uh it turns out the robot was activated as a joke uh to scare her for breaking in by the th by the director of Think Tank. Uh they laugh uh and all have fun and stuff. Uh and uh uh they tell uh K1 to, you know, they tell Sarah Jane that oh she was never in any danger, and then they tell K1 to kill Sarah Jane, and K1 can't because it causes him distress. Um so after after Sarah leaves, uh they adjust readjust K1 and send him out to kill the cabinet minister chambers. Um K1 completes its mission and kills him. And just like Hal in Space Odyssey, K1 gets a bit unstable. Uh yeah. For a robot that's designed not to hurt people, you know, they're doing an awful lot of damage to this poor thing. Um so yeah, long story short, Kettlewell's working with a fringe radical scientist group. They're gonna destroy the world if their demands aren't met. K1 kills hits maker, which makes him more unstable. The regulator shoots K1 with the disruptor, K1 gets really big and makes off with Sarah Jane. Uh King's what you said made out. Uh no. Uh that was earlier in the yeah, yeah. Uh but yeah. Uh so yeah. Functional. Yeah, fully functional, skilled in multiple techniques, yes.

SPEAKER_05 38:36

Uh from you, Data, you are fully functional, aren't you? Of course, but how fully?

SPEAKER_06 38:43

In every way, of course. I am programmed in multiple techniques, a broad variety of pleasuring.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Uh you jewel. But, anyways, uh K K1, uh, you know, King Kong style makes off with Sarah Jane. The doctor's forced to kill K-1 with a virus that consumes the robot's living metal body. Sarah Jane is sad that he had to die because he seems so human. And the doctor observes that it was capable of great good as well as great evil, so one could say it was human. Um to cheer Sarah up. They decide to pop off for a trip in the TARDIS just as they're leaving. Harry comes in asking where they're going when the doctor tells him. Harry considers the idea that a police box can go anywhere in time and space absurd. Doctor invites Harry to step inside uh the TARDIS and just to prove it's no illusion. And Harry does so and is uh heard by the doctor and Sarah to exclaim in surprise uh, you know, the the standard is bigger on the inside, blah, blah, blah stuff. Uh they follow an M grinning, and the TARDIS dematerializes just as the Brigadier enters the lab. The Brigadier mutters that he's gonna have to explain to Buckingham Pellas that the doctor will be late for dinner. So that's a very quick overview of the episode. Watch the episodes, four parts. It's really good. Uh yeah, it's uh the the just the wardrobe scene uh after Tom regenerates uh is just priceless. It's really good. Uh lots of fun outfits.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

A bonus fact about robot it is one of a very small number of DocTwo stories that has been novelized not once, but twice. Um bizarre fact, and uh I've never had an explanation for this. Whether or not, again, it was like a an idea for a pilot range of books or whatever, but secondary to the Target novels, there were two books in a range called Junior Doctor Who. Now I don't mean Muppet Baby style Junior Doctor Who, I mean it was the Target novel rewritten for a younger audience with with literally dozens of illustrations scattered throughout it. Um one of them it even looks like the Doctor and the Robot are dancing. Um there were only two done. There was Doctor and the Giant Robot and Doctor and the Brains of Morbius. Um and then no more were done after that. So yeah. Um a couple of others have been novelized twice for various reasons. But yeah, Giant Robot was the first one that got an official second novelization.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Well, I mean, it's a solid episode. Uh you know, it was pretty well written. Um and uh, you know. Although I do have an issue with uh as they're leaving, uh as the evil scientists uh are leaving with Sarah Jane held hostage and they're walking the robot across the thing and and everybody's shooting their sterlings at him. There's one guy off to the side who's behind the robot and the bad guy, who's actually probably guiding the actor in the suit because he can't see a damn thing, uh, who's in prime position to shoot the dude that's guiding the robot. So like, and he's firing, and nothing is happening to the guy who's being shot in the back multiple times by a Sterling submachine gun. So okay. It's magical. Yeah, that's that's my my favorite episode. One of my favorite episodes of who uh, you know, by far, and and definitely uh it's a good like launch into the fourth doctor. I mean, you there's no uh it's not depressing, it's a little bit uh you know, a little bit fun. Tom was uh in rare form, I think, in this episode. And he hit the ground running, basically. Yeah, he really did a great job. There was no, there was really no, like a lot of the doctors have a few episodes where it takes them like to get into it. He was just spot on, like bam, he hit the ground. He was he was funny, he was charming, uh, you know, uh it was just a good episode. I think he he's uh yeah, it's it's his best, I think, in in my opinion. Downhill all the way for the rest of his 10 years, right? Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I still love the fourth doctor. He is one of my favorites, uh, you know, but as it went on, I I you could see the spots where Tom's not feeling well, or Tom's been out to the pub too late one night uh before shooting. One morning, one afternoon, yeah, lunchtime, yeah. Before Martini lunch, yes, yes, uh before martini tea time. Yes. Uh yeah, he's Tom had some issues uh at the time. And you know, bless him. He is he's he's just had a birthday recently, and uh he's he's frail, but he's still you know still plugging along. Yeah, he's still plugging along, and he's still he's still uh a delight to you know to watch uh watch him reminisce about Doctor Who. So yeah. Bless you, Tom. We hope you live another good few years. But if he gets any skinnier, uh he's gonna slip down the drain. He's gonna blow away. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Yeah. So, Mike, what have you gone for for unit?

SPEAKER_01 44:09

So I went for the Seeds of Doom. Um the the special effects. It's a six, it's a six series arch for uh this the final season of uh what the thirteenth season of Doctor Who. So it's a six series arch and um special effects for kind of minimal, um really more of a story-driven arch than uh anything else. I mean, yeah, you know, they show the pod getting bigger, and basically all it is is closer up on the camera. Okay. Oh, here we are, like or superimposed over a house. So it essentially the story is in Antarctica an expedition explained, discovers an unknown seed pod in the permafrost, which was about that far below some foam rubber. Um and it insulates the permafrost. That's right. It predates any known form of plant life in the lab. It suddenly splits open and releases a tendril that attaches itself to one of the men, causing his body to be rapidly overtaken by plant growths. Ew. Uh the doctor and Sarah Jane arrived to help, and the doctor identifies the pod as being a croinoid, an extremely dangerous alien plant species with the potential to destroy all human and animal life on Earth. Furthermore, a second pod is found near where the first one was discovered because apparently when they discovered the first one, they stopped digging and brought the first one back. So the doctor goes to the exact same spot and digs another inch into the foam rubber and finds the second one. While Sarah Jane and the expedition guy are sitting there going, What are you looking for? What are you looking for? It's like you should be obvious what he's looking for. He went to the same spot. Anyway, then they go back and they're going to um try and amputate the guy's arm. Now it'll stop the inspection. It's like if the inspection is all the way in your body, cutting off the arm or trimming it, as you were, just take a hedge trimmer and there you go, right? Um it's yeah, it does it didn't work well for Ash in Evil Dead. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

It's basically the ultimate form of manscaping.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Yes, true exactly. And and then they cut to this please uh sponsor us. Yeah, they they they cut to this exclusive plant-obsessed, creepy-looking millionaire by the name of Chase, and he's got word of this seed pod somehow, don't know how, I guess he intercepted something going to the uh to the BBC. Um uh they manage, they get there, they manage to steal the second pod, and they set a bomb to destroy the entire base, and the crinoid is killed in the resulting blast. Yay! But Doctor and Sarah barely survive, yay! Which they then go back to England and they infiltrate Chase's estate, but they're both captured by the henchmen, and they decide to use Sarah as a test subject, but the doctor escapes and rescues Sarah just in a nick of time. Well, all the resulting confusion, uh, the pot opens and infects one of the henchmen. And of course, the warmer British climate causes them to start transforming much more rapidly than in the Arctic. And Chase further accelerates the process by feeding him raw meat. And I just wanted to think over and over again, feed me, Seymour.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Feed me, feed me now.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

By the time the following morning comes up, the crinoid has grown to the size of the house and is able to take over plants and have them strangle people to death, which is vines on strings going around your neck. That was exciting. Like I said, the the special effects budget was very minimal on this one. And then uh Chase falls under the influence of the plant, and he's going to um take over the world, and plants are going to rule, and the one of a henchmen has to join Doctor and Sarah to stop him. And now that the doctor calls in unit because they've got this great ray gun that they're gonna use to shoot the crinoid, which they never show them shooting it. They come running into the thing, and one guy's got this huge bazooka-looking thing, and then they cut to another scene, and then they cut back to the soldiers retreating, saying the ray gun didn't work. So now what are we gonna do? Because again, couldn't afford the special effects to show a ray gun shooting, you know. Um, and uh Chase tries to feed Sarah into a Dustrial mulching machine, only to fall victim to the machine himself when the doctor arrives again in the nick of time to rescue Sarah. And uh the doctor and Sarah just barely escape again before it is completely destroyed by lots and lots and lots and lots of bombs from unit. And everybody goes on their merry way, and I figured out that this is when the fourth doctor likes to end that whole the whole chain of events, every episode, Tom Baker always makes some sort of weird joke at the end. There's always some weird joke. So, like like what you said, Eric, he's gonna be late for dinner. This one, they they bugger off in the pot in the TARDIS, and they appear in the Antarctica again when they were supposed to be going to someplace tropical, and he says, Oh, have we been here before? And he says, Or have we yet to arrive? Like, really?

SPEAKER_00 49:16

I have only one criticism of your summary. What's that? Those weren't cheap effects for the BBC in the 70s, those were high quality priced effects. Okay. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

They used only the best fishing wire on those vines.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

Ah, okay, all right. Okay, um, so I've I've gone into the expanded universe as you would expect. Um and yeah, I mean, unit in the expanded universe is massive and hugely contradictory. Yes. Um you everyone says, oh, the big problem is is unit set in the 70s or the 80s, it's like seriously, that's one of the minor continuity issues.

SPEAKER_05 50:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:02

Um, I've I've kind of tried to pick stuff from different aspects of the expanded universe so that if there are people who prefer reading to audios to whatever, everyone has covered. Um from the novels, I've gone with Last of the Gatherene. Okay. And it is possibly the most traditional unit type novel that you could find. Okay. Um, it is written very lovingly, it's kind of like Unit Greatest Hits. Uh, it's the third doctrine unit. And more importantly, it was released as an audiobook as well. It's still available on on Audible and all that kind of stuff. So it is very accessible. And it's actually a really good one if you're not sure about kind of like you know what the style of the audiobooks are and everything, it's quite a good one. It's read by Richard Franklin, who was part of the unit team. Um, so it's you know, it's a nice intro. Right. I actually bizarrely mentioned this last time, but I'm gonna show it again because it's gonna form part of a running joke, running theme, running issue. Um, from the comics, I'm gonna recommend the mark of Mark of Mandragora. Okay. Oh. Um it's set in an exclusive nightclub uh where there are some weird bits and pieces going on. Um The TARDIS, through means of Doctor Who stuff, gets merged with the nightclub. Um and yes, Unit are involved because yes, the weird stuff is alien. It is a follow-up to a Tom Baker story called The Mark of Mandragora. So the Mark of Mandragora, I get the right way around. Um so again, it's actually Mandragoras. Yeah, so it's it is a a good example of Doctor Who using its own continuity, updating it accurately, because in Mark of Mandragora Mask of Mandragora, the joke, to pick up on what you said, Mike, is that oh, it'll arrive back on Earth in about 500 years' time, at which point Sarah goes, but that's my time. And yes, it is set in 1999. Okay. Um from the audios, I've picked two, uh, both of which are available from Big Fingish's downloads. So again, I've tried to kind of pick stuff which is accessible to people. Um the first one Specialists will need it now. Yeah, yeah. Um so the first one is a rather rather standalone thing. Um in the early days of Big Fingish, so before the TV series was rebooted, they actually did a four and a half part unit story. Okay? Oh the half part is because they gave away like the the a preview prelude type thing with Doctor Who magazine, which is useful, but it's not vital to the story. Yeah. Um it is literally just on the Big Fingish website as Unit the Complete Series, but more importantly, all four parts of it are available on Spotify.

unknown 53:24

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

And I know that some people have issues with Spotify and everything. Big Fingish are happy to have their stuff on there, so we might as well publicize it. Yeah. Um, and it is not your happy units family, okay? It is very dark, it is paranoid conspiracy territory. Um, but you've got the brigadier in there, you've got guest starring David Tennant, um, you've got some really very worryingly kind of that could happen type stuff. Okay. Okay. So it's not the nice happy unit stuff that we're kind of used to from the classic series. It's not the Kate Lethbridge Stewart unit, it's this weird unit of its own thing. Um, and yeah, it's set in 2004. Okay. Um if you are looking for modern unit, okay. Big finish. Initially, all the boxes were standalone, okay? So basically, kind of like you could buy one box and you didn't end on a cliffhanger or whatever. Right. Towards the end, they had they did start doing kind of like um much bigger stories, which were kind of you know multiple boxes. But I'm gonna recommend Unit Extinction, which is the first box. Because A, it introduces all the characters. If you think Kate and Osgood are the only members of Unit, you can think again. Um Well, they have to have a big unit because they got a big building. Well, this is actually this this predates that big building. Yeah. Um, so this is you know, more faithful to the original version of the new unit with Kate. Um it has got a returning villain in the form of the Nestine. Oh, okay. And it seems to be that the Nestine, yeah. When we want to relaunch something, we bring the Nestines in. So they relaunched Doctor Who in colour. They brought the Nestle. Very creepy.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

Yeah. Yeah. One of the creepier Doctor Who villains, and and I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

And they work really well on audio. Yeah. Um, so yeah, those are my picks for recommendations for Unit. Um I don't want to give the the endings away, but yeah. Uh Mark Mark of Mandragora plays with your emotions a little bit. The Unit Complete series destroys your emotions. Oh wow. And then Unit Extinction gives you a warm, fuzzy glow once everyone is safe.

SPEAKER_05 56:06

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

Because I'd say they do set up all the new characters, and then those characters reappear in most of the boxes. Okay. So there is a whole new audio unit family. Right. So last time we wanted named Daleks and Companions and Unit. Right. Okay. Okay. Uh, we'll start with the named Daleks. Because I don't think you know where this is gonna go.

unknown 56:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

I certainly don't. No. Um so the ones you were thinking of were The Cult of Scaro, okay? Um they're in the various kind of you know, new news series ones, um, Evolution of the Daleks, Talk uh Doomsday, and all that lot. Their origin story is in this little booklet thingy. Okay, I've mentioned these before. They're called The Doctor Who Files. You know, they are aimed at kids, okay? Right. But there is a real, you know, bearing in mind that this was done essentially after their first appearance, there's or second appearance rather, there's loads of fun bits about them, loads of exclusive photos. And to make sure that you're actually reading it, there are quizzes.

SPEAKER_05 57:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

And then once you get to the end, oops, there is in each of the Doctor files, there is actually a short story. Um, and this one is Birth of a Legend. Okay, and it deals with the formation of the cult of Scaro. Now, um, what I do want to say on a slightly downbeat note, uh, these as a huge amount of Doctor Who from the last 20 or 30 years were written by a gentleman called Justin Richards. Justin passed away recently. Um the impact he had on Doctor Who cannot be under understated. You know, over overstated rather, yeah. I mean, he written novels, he's written Big Finish, he's written all these, he's written factual books. You know, he he was one of the powerhouses of the wilderness years. Um he was an amazing writer. Um yeah, he knew Doctor Who Inside Out. So basically, yeah, you know, these were done at the time, and you know, he did a lot of them, all of them had short stories in. He's written short story collections with American themes, with female themes, with all kinds of themes, monster themes, everything like that. And yeah, um, sadly he passed away, and one of the biggest losses to Doctor Who that there really could be. Okay, yeah. What a shame. So, to cheer us up, I thought I would step away from the ones you were expecting and say, guess what? Daleks with names is nothing new. Okay. First Daleks with Names were in any guesses? Oh The Day of the Dalek? 1965 in the Dalek comic strips. Okay. There is a wonderful one called Jewel of the Daleks, D-U-E-L, where basically a Dalek named Zeg takes on the Emperor Dalek to try and take over the dice. Now, I'm not saying that this had a lasting impact, but say Zeg fought the Emperor Dalek in 1965. The most recent reference to Zeg the Dalek was in the 2023 comic strip Liberation of the Daleks. So, yeah, there's not quite a run. Quite a run. He's he he he's referencing a few of them actually. Um right. In the Titan comic strips, in the uh the second year of the 11th Doctor, uh, for reasons which I won't necessarily go into because it's quite a big spoiler, but they do reference another Dalek, uh, who is known as the nastiest Dalek of them all, called Bob. Bob.

unknown 1:00:36

Bob.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

Okay. There's a planet called Bob too. Bob the Dalek.

unknown 1:00:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

Well, that's a little Titan AE, but yeah. Right. If you are not a comic strip person, tough shit, because the next one is another comic strip, one I've read it before, called Children of the Revolution. Uh lots of Daleks with names in that because it is a sequel to a second Doctor TV story called Evil of the Daleks.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

And Evil of the Daleks was the first TV story to give Daleks names. Daleks in there are called Alpha, Beta, and Omega. Okay. And just exactly why they need names is a big part of the plot. And why are they Greek? Because of how they got their names. But what I would say is although the TV episodes are missing, one of them still exists, but the whole thing was animated a few years back and released on DVD and Blu-ray. Um, the battle scene at the end in episode 7 is superbly animated. Oh, excellent. And on the discs is some surviving footage of the real battle scene, which varies from horrendously awful to my god, how the fuck did they do that in 1967? You know, it is a very surreal experience watching it because they cut from toy Daleks to full-size ones. The toy Dalek stuff is awful to watch. Yeah. The full-size stuff is amazing. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:18

Um I mean, I think the problem, the problem, especially with the with that time period, is uh they hadn't really invented, you know, really good miniature filming techniques that didn't that gave them depth. Nope. So without a tilt ship lens, it was really kind of it's flat and looks weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:36

And BBC 1960s budget was less than it was in the 70s. Um if you are wanting a novel, then there is a novel called Prisoner of the Daleks, which again has got a named Dalek in it. The name of the Dalek is Dalek X. Because the Dalek has chosen that name for itself because it knows it evokes fear into humans. Please note it was not originally called Dalek Twitter. Dalek. This was long before that debacle. Right. So yeah. Um everyone, oh, Daleks with names, how revolutionary that's like, nope. 1965, right the way through to modern day. Been there, done that, expanded universe, did everything that the BBC did. Right. You wanted bizarrely, companions with unit. Yeah. Right. Talk about a unit heavy episode, right? Yeah. Well, I have We might as well do it like all the way. Yeah. Um now I've picked out mostly uh novels and audios because I've already because in the unit bit I'd already selected a comic strip as my pick. So I've kind of taken what you requested and then added a bolt-on to the end um to show you just how imaginative Doctor Who could actually get in the expanded universe. Right. Um you talked about companions with unit in terms of the ones we've seen on screen. Yeah. So um Mel. Mel got involved with Unit in the books. Yeah. Um now, Mel is the weird one because her first TV story is not her first adventure with the doctor. At the end of her first TV story, the doctor then takes Mel off to drop her somewhere so she can meet the doctor for the first time. It is very if you want if you want the brain-bending bit of that, then the big finish audio The Wrong Doctors is hysterical. Okay. Have a pen and paper with you though to keep track of the Doctor and the Mel because there's multiple ones running round. However, before Big Finish, before all of that, the BBC past Doctor Adventures did Business Unusual, which is Mel's first meeting with the Sixth Doctor. Okay. It also features the brigadier. So yeah, it is a unit story.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

And think back to something I said a short time ago and guess who the monsters are in it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:33

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:34

Could it be Oh, it's um my brain just went like the autons. I just I it was on the tip of my tongue and I'm like, plastic, plastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

Um It's a really fun one. Um it's written by Gary Russell, who knows again, knows Doctor Who inside out. Um you cannot fault Gary Russell for being having fun. Fun with his continuity. And more importantly, he actually manages to start the book fixing a continuity error and then goes into the rest of it. Um yeah. Right. Uh so along with Mel, who we saw in alongside the 15th Doctor, uh Ace and Teagan, um with the 13th. So, pardon me, for Ace, I'm gonna recommend a story called Animal. Okay. Now, Animal is a bit unusual. Animal is a big thingish release that was never supposed to be a big finish release because it was supposed to be a television story. Oh, okay. So, 1989, the Doctor and Ace walk off into the sunset, uh, and the end of surviv at the end of survival, and that's it. The TV, the classic TV series ends. What is you know uh supposedly going on behind the scenes, we will never know, because again, wilderness years, lies from the BBC, miscommunications for that. There were already plans, admittedly, not particularly very developed ones, but there were plans for a season 27. Okay. That's why the Doctor and Ace were not written out at the end of it, because they were yeah. And uh Big Finish took four of the proposed stories and put them into a season 27 release set. And so it was in their range called Lost Stories, which is all about stories that were intended to be made but weren't for one reason or another. Um the whole batch of four actually is far more modern feeling than it would have been had it been made in 1990. Um, but Animal features Unit, and rather than Brigadier Alistair Gordon Lethbridge Stuart, Brigadier Bambera is back in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

From Battlefield. And she also now has a range of big fingers unit stories to kind of bridge the gap between Classic Who and the Kate Lethbridge Stuart era. Okay. Okay. Nice. So that's that's why I thought I'd go with that one. Um, and as for Teagan, um, I mean, apart from the fact that Teagan met the Brigadier in The Five Doctors, of course, there is a novel called The King of Terror, which is a fifth Doctor Teagan and Turlough story. And there's not actually huge well, there weren't at the time too many expanded universe Teagan and Turlow bits. Um, but it's Teagan and Turlow, the Brigadier, oh dear, it's in 1999 again. Yeah. Um there seems to be something about that year, I don't know what it was. Um but yeah. Um so uh the one the the curveball I want to throw in there though is uh a book called Face of the Enemy. It is a unit book. Okay. Okay. But the doctor is not in it because the doctor has buggered off to Peladon. Okay. Face of the enemy is what does Unit do when the Doctor is off planet? Right. And there are three people that Unit enlists the aid of. Okay. Okay. The first two I wouldn't say it's you know a terrible shock. It's not what you'd expect though. They actually enlist Ian Chesterton and Barbara Wright. Oh, okay. So, yeah, Ian, it's revealed. You know, you basically get to know what happened to Ian and Barbara after they left the doctor. There are lots of other kind of names battered round and stuff, but who do you think they get as their replacement scientific advisor?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:20

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:22

I don't know. The master.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Yeah. Okay. That sounds awesome. That's basically this is unit without the doctor, desperate for help, because there is an invasion from another universe.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Oh, well, that's something the master couldn't stand, anyways. He wants to be the one who controls everything. Yeah. Or they.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

They want to be. The other really fun thing is there's not one master in the book, but two. Ooh. So which two, which two do we get? I'm not saying because that is one of the big twists. Okay. Yeah. Um, it is a fantastic book. Um, and I'm actually going to be doing it for my YouTube channel at some point. Oh, fantastic. Uh link link below or the stuff above there. Um, because yeah, it's one of those ones where it's like, yeah, you could not get away with this on TV, especially not in the 70s, you know, because Doctor was about the Doctor. But yep, the BBC past Doctor Adventures said, Do you know what? We'll do a Doctor Light book, and we'll have the master as the main character. And it's brilliant. Why not? Yay. Right. Okay. I went for board games, and I'm gonna I'm gonna say that, yeah, this is not a complete list of every board game that there has ever been because there's tons of them. Yes. Um right.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

So we'll start actually. And that's just the licensed ones. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:58

There are tons of non-licensed Doctor Who stuff out there as well. Okay. So we're not even gonna start in modern day. In the 70s, there was a Doctor Who board game, yeah. Um in the 60s, there were, I think, a few which were basically just kind of like roll the dice, move your character around the board kind of thing. Yeah. And yeah, this one is very similar, but it says a fast, exciting, all-family action game. Oh yeah, yeah. Um the other reason I wanted to mention this is because this had a direct competitor in the 70s.

unknown 1:12:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:37

An officially licensed Doctor Who board game that you got by buying serial packets. Nice. Okay. So if you couldn't splash out for the official one, you could buy Wheatabix boxes and get not one, not two, but four different board games which you could link together to make one big one. Nice. Yeah. Um, I'm gonna skip the board games that they did in the 1990s because the words utter and shite do not go anywhere near.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:13

You know, the 90s was not a great time for board games. It really wasn't. Uh, computer games had just really started taking off, and there just wasn't the the push to make really good board games in the 90s.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:26

Not only is it a bad board game, it's terrible design. The likenesses of the characters are hysterically awful. And yeah, I will send a couple over so that you can flash them up and apologize for the people's eyeballs melting. Right. Um, we'll jump about in time a bit, because I'm gonna do an 11th Doctor One next. Doctor Who, so famously kind of you know, pro-freedom, pro-liberation, pro-everything. So, therefore, of course, there was Doctor Who Monopoly. Monopoly. Doctor Who meets capitalism, yeah. Um I have three different versions. You want to start a fight?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:09

Yeah. I have three different versions of Doctor Who Monopoly.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:12

It's great fun because you know, you can Doctor Who Monopoly, I mean, it's like you can do your own version, you can print your own version because you know, if there's so many planets, there's so many locations. Um and as you say, I mean, there's been multiple versions. Um and it's the best way to start a fight with your family. Absolutely. Yes. No, I think the best way to start with the best way to start a fight with my family is to meet them. No, come on, your mom's lovely. Oh, yeah, no, my mom my mother is lovely. Right. If you want to dissect a fight, then there is a Doctor Who operation where you can basically and what you might be spotting is that yeah, a lot of the board games are basically your bog standard board games with the words left on.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:00

Yeah. Who's the patient in that one though?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

It's a Dalek. It's a Dalek. Okay. Yeah. Yes, because you really want to operate on a Dalek and keep the Dalek alive. Um there's been Doctor Who Cludo, there's all kinds of very conventional ones. Um Did you have the magic robot in America?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:24

Oh, is it uh we had several of those little ones where you put the cards in and you it talks. Yes, we have several.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:34

Yes, yes. We had several. And basically there is a Doctor Who version, Doctor Who facts and trivia quiz game. Yes. Right. However, to give them their due though, there were lots of non-cloned games. Um and actually, the good thing is, because it was the height of tenant when a lot of these came out, they were willing to put some money and effort into them. Um Doctor Who, the interactive electronic board game. Oh, nice. Now, bizarrely, I've actually seen a few copies of this in charity shops recently. Um and I said, it's not just kind of like roll the dice and move around. Um there's other ones where you've got revolving boards, where you've got kind of neat model TARDIS, you've got neat figurines and everything. And then, yeah, if you want to actually have a battle type one, Doctor Who Dalek Battle Through Time game includes moving Dalek model with sound effects. Nice. Oh, cool. Um, and yeah, bizarrely, during the Capoldi era, I don't remember seeing too many. Um, but there were again a couple, I think, that came out in the Jody era, which sadly I didn't get. Um and yeah, if you are, of course, ultra geeky, there is Doctor Who Trivial Pursuit.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:05

Trivial Pursuit, yes, yes, of course. Which I had before I moved, and now I don't have any more. It's in a box somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

So in the States. The other thing, though, of course, is travel games. And if I can remember how to open this, this is one of four different sets of Doctor Who Top Trumps. Okay. Uh there was a series one and two one, which featured on Eccleston and the first tenant era. Um, then there was a Doctor and Martha set, and then again, it's seemed to skip 11 and goes the two done for 12. Right. So uh let me see. Okay, I'm gonna pick to start off with. Let's go ahead to head, Missy, and Davros. Okay. Right, Eric. Yes. I'm gonna tell you that according to this particular set of top trumps, Davros's brains rating was 85 out of a hundred. Okay. Mike, do you think Missy was classified as greater brains or fewer brains than Davros?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:30

I'm going to say fewer brains because it makes for a more fun conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:35

She's actually 92 out of a hundred. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:39

Yeah, I was gonna say it's Davros is kind of a he's not really that smart. Uh he's clever.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:48

Right. I can't remember what the maximum value is for this next category. Terror. Okay. So, Mike, terror for Missy was 18. Do you think the terror for Davros is greater or less than that?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:09

I'm gonna say greater.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:11

Yeah, terror is 30. Yeah, it's definitely scarier. So, Eric, your question for this particular battle Davros's top Trumps rating is eight out of ten. Okay. What do you reckon, Missy's, is higher or lower? I'd reckon higher. She's ten out of ten.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:37

Ten out of ten. Yeah. She's devious. I mean, yeah. She's essentially Mary Poppins.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

Right. Um, we'll have a couple another couple with aliens. If I can find a decent alien that people will actually Oh no, well, tell you what, as we've been doing unit, uh, we will have Kate Stewart. Okay. And Osgood. Okay. Right. So the categories are strength, brains, terror, bravery, and top trump's rating. Okay. Eric. Do you want Osgood or Kate? I'll take Osgood. And which category do you wish to let's go for brains. Right. Brains for Osgood is 73. So, Mike, that leaves you with brains for Kate Lethridge Stewart. Higher or lower. I'm gonna say lower. It's 78, it is higher. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yes, I'm not saying that these top trumps were particularly well thought through.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:07

Because yeah, when we did when we covered Osgood, uh, yeah, she was uh Kate was extremely impressed with her, and that that uh led me to believe that she would be rated higher.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:18

Right. So sticking with Kate, Mike, do you want to battle against Osgood on strength, terror, bravery, or Top Trump's rating? Bravery. Right. Bravery for Kate was 40. Eric. Higher or lower for Osgood.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:43

I'd guess lower for Osgood. It's higher. Really? Wow. The bravery rating was 50. Oh wow. Wow, okay. I mean she's brave when she has to be, but yeah, uh, yeah. Right. So unless it's spiders.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:03

Yeah. So who do you reckon won on terror? Oh, I'm gonna reckon Kate. I say Kate. Yeah. Ten for Kate and a terror rating of one for Osvred. Yeah, well, that tracks, though. She's not.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:21

She's sweet. She's sweet and lovable and cuddly, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:24

And the final one, because I know they're in here, somewhere the ultimate showdown. Mike, do you wish to play as the Doctor, Peter Capoldi style, or do you wish to play as Riversong? Oh, Riversong. Right. So do you wish they attack eyebrows? Do you wish to go for strength, brains, terror, bravery, or top trump's rating? Let's go strength. Right. Strength was 60. Okay. Oh wow. Eric, do you reckon you're gonna win this one, or do you reckon Riversong could take Capaldi? That's a hard one.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:11

Uh I'm gonna reckon Capaldi's doctor is higher. 75, well done. Yeah, yeah. Right. He's he's very seems very frustrated and angry all the time and frustrated. So that that tends to me seem stronger. He's Scottish. Yeah, Scottish Scottish, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:31

Yeah. And the attack eyebrows. Okay, so Eric. Brains, terror, bravery, or top Trump's rating for the doctor, which are you gonna pick as your your your winner? I'm gonna go with brains. Right. Brains for the 12th Doctor was 93.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:54

Mike. Riversong. I wanna say higher, but I'm gonna say lower.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:06

Brains rating was only 35.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:10

She's clear. So the No, I'm not bull bullshitting, by the way. There you go. There is the rating. So the big question. Top Trump's rating. Who do you reckon? Oh, it's gotta be the doctor. Yeah, I'm gonna say the doctor as well. Top Trump's rating for the doctor. You might have to flip the image, of course, but is 10.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:39

For Riversong Perfect match of two perfect tens.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:47

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:48

Right. Because we're kind of getting to the to the scraping the barrel a bit for um playlists. I've I've mooted this with Eric because I, you know, we're in a situation where, yeah, we are a little bit away from new episodes. So what I'm gonna suggest is that, yeah, if there's news, we do it. Um Eric, you'll then pick a random topic for the kind of the main discussion. But then, yeah, actually, I've been doing a lot of recommendations and I'm gonna you know, want some from you. So what I've suggested is that we start working through the doctors. Yeah. Um so basically next month we'll start with the first doctor. Yeah. Um we won't do a big discussion about the character or anything, but I'm gonna give you a little bit of homework as well. Okay. So what I'll do, and I'll put a link to this in uh our our off off-grid chat. I'm gonna upload two episodes from Big Fingish. Because of course, William Hartnell has not been with us for quite some time. Yeah. And Big Fingish have not recast the first doctor once, they've now recast him officially twice. Okay. So I'm not expecting. Well, I'm not gonna say. I'm gonna, you know, because I want to kind of this particular one, there is a uh a definite sting to kind of thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:26

What I'll do is I'll upload two stories, one from each of their official first doctors. Not expecting you to listen to the whole thing or whatever. But yeah, just because you know, I've been listening to big things for way too long, you know, and I've seen voices and everything develop and everything. Be very interesting to see what two newcomers to these replacement doctors think of the replacements.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:52

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:53

Yeah. If you want to listen to the whole story, that's up to you. You know, but say, I'll put two episodes up, two stories up, one from each of their official doctors, because I am fascinated to know what non-big finish people think of their replacement first doctors.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:11

And bearing in mind that we've also got replacement second doctors, replacement third doctors. They've never replaced fourth onwards, but there are other replacements to discuss. So, yeah, there's going to be a lot of interesting, hopefully, comments from you. And yeah, my suggestion is that we go with playlists now. So next month, First Doctor, following month, second doctor. Sure. Because it makes it a lot easier and gives. I'm I'm interested to know what you think makes a good First Doctor story. Yeah. Okay. Right. Okay. So yeah, I'll get those uploaded. Awesome. I won't, I won't make you read the First Doctor comic strips because, quite frankly, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:51

All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:52

Yeah, I've seen some of them. They're they're they're yeah. Yeah. Very rough. Right. Yeah. So uh uh going along with this theme, uh, and since we're you know basically stuck in a in an era of no new, we're gonna go back and like you said, so uh we won't do this every every month, but uh I do want to go back and let's go very back to the very beginning. Let's talk about uh the first doctor, William Hartner, and uh yeah, let's let's uh have a full yeah yeah let's let's uh kind of reboot the the you know our brains sure by going back to the beginning as well and uh talking about the first doctor because uh he love him or hate him, uh he was he was uh really pretty damn good. Yeah, he was first, he was really pretty damn good.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:47

Yeah, and I think that's genuinely gonna be, you know, if we've got any people who are kind of thinking, oh, do I want to watch these black? It's like, yeah, there's gonna be a lot of very good things.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:56

You really do. You really do. Uh they like I said, barring special effects, which you can't expect them to be that great back then, no, especially on the budget they were doing. We talked about uh uh Verity and uh and uh Worris and you know the the hardships that they went through to get Doctor Who on the air. Uh and so you know if you if you're interested in that, go back to uh some of our first episodes, I think it's first or second episodes where we talk about them. Uh and it uh yeah, it it it was they did a lot with a very little. And uh it was it's amazing. But uh yeah, the the stories themselves, really pretty good. Um yeah, I I I I like the first doctor. He's uh you know, not my favorite, but definitely among the top five. Save that for the next month, then. Alrighty. So thank you for joining us on another journey through time and space with the doctor. Remember, you can support the show by liking and subscribing on YouTube, or subscribing on Buzzprout for as little as three dollars a month. You can send us an email at three dooh at gmail.com or a text or voice message from three do at buzzprout.com. The link is at the top of every episode's show notes. Follow us on blue sky threedo.bsky.social, or join us on our telegram group chat at three doo who and I want to say a very happy birthday to James's husband, Alex.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:22

He's sleeping at the moment, but I'll pass on the the greetings. Yes. All righty. Take care, everyone. Bye, guys.