Three Do Who S3E6-Bad Wolf

This episode explores the intricate lore of Doctor Who's Bad Wolf storyline, the recent cancellations and future of Star Trek, and the cultural impact of sci-fi franchises. The hosts analyze fan theories, production secrets, and the enduring legacy of science fiction in popular culture. This episode explores the intricate world of Doctor Who's expanded universe, missing episodes, and the fascinating history behind the show's archival journey. Join us as we delve into fan efforts, production secrets, and the future of the series.

This podcast contains adult language and adult subject matter and is rated M for mature. Listener discretion is advised. 

Closing audio

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Welcome to Three Do Who, the monthly Doctor Who podcast, where we talk about all things Doctor Who. I'm Eric, and with me as always are the are two of the time lords that make this show a trio, James and Mike. How are you guys doing today?

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Oh, just Ducky.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Just Ducky. If I'm a time lord, then I'm kind of not just at the towards the end of my last regeneration.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

That's how he's doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I'm Jesus. There you go. You unfroze.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

It's gonna be one of those days.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

It's gonna be Oh, yeah. Um technology has been interesting. I couldn't even upload a bloody video to Blue Sky earlier. It was actually It was like a 20-second video clip.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Yeah. Like 10 meg, and that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

So I I think we've set the tone for how well this recording is gonna go. Probably. Which, given that part of what I'm gonna be talking about is missing and lost recordings, is kind of ironic.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yeah. That should be interesting. Well, I'm getting over a cold still. Uh so I sound a little congested, and I am. So uh sorry about that, everyone. Um, so uh what do you say we roll into some who news that's not who news this time? Why let's well there is no who news anyway, other than the picture. No, the the only thing the only thing I was gonna put, uh they did it, they did put a really fun uh uh April Fool's Day joke in that uh the doctor was finally getting to get to be a gene ginger, uh, because uh they had uh they had um decided to cast Rupert Grint as the doctor in a rotating group of doctors, which as soon as I read that, I was like, oh, it's April 1st. Because yeah, they they were supposedly going to make the next series like a weekly rotating group of doctors.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Like the guest hosts on Saturday Night Live kind of thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I can't wait for Daniel Cray to go, it's the Daleks. You know, uh Right.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Well, I mean, I would have I would have watched Rupert as the doctor. So would I actually, yeah. Yeah, I mean he's he's quite nice to the eyes. Uh anyways, let's roll on to to the act, what actions I have. Um I apologize if if any of you watching are not Star Trek fans, but uh most of us here are, and uh this is kind of relatable to those that are Star Trek fans uh who haven't been through wilderness years type situations. So uh Star Theater Academy has has been canceled and uh Star Trek production is basically stopped. This is the first time in a decade that this has happened. Um so we do know that uh that the sets have been struck and auctioned off as of Friday. So there is no chance, even with the petition that's going around, for Starfield Academy to come back unless a whole lot of money comes out of nowhere and buys Star Trek. So um, yeah, it's the first time in over a decade that there's no new Star Trek currently in production. Uh, we do know that season five of Strange New Worlds will air next year, and uh we'll get 10 years or 10 years, wish 10 episodes of season two of Starfleet Academy that have already been filmed. Although there's been some uh some rumors around that they may not even complete those, but the stars are all saying that yes, they are going to be completed. Uh the yeah, the woman that plays Laura Talk, uh Gina Yeshir, has said that she's been told that yeah, that the season will come out. Um just it probably won't be until sometime in 27. Or later, who knows? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

It's depending on the how it fee how the public receives it, they they will either drop it all at once or weekly like they're doing now. But my guess is they'll drop it all at once.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Yeah. So I mean it kind of leads me into this about what's troubling about this uh cancellation is uh the massive backlash that Starfleet Academy uh had uh that ramped up right after Stephen Miller made a comment that it should be canceled and William Shatner should take over all of Star Trek, which given his age and the fact that he's retired and only doing conventions very rarely, uh is not gonna happen. Uh Bill does not have that kind of bandwidth or that kind of energy anymore to kind of to run all of Star Trek. Um yeah. So shortly after that, uh an overwhelming number of negative comments seemed to come from bots or people who heard there was a gay Klingon and hadn't even seen the single episode. Can I just say something? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

They actually discovered, I think it was on either Craigslist or LinkedIn, an advert for people to being paid opportunities to write and upload negative reviews of Star Street Academy.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Uh so it was just money, but being bribed to do it.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

I I actually myself encountered one of the bots because uh you know I made a comment on somebody's somebody's thing, and then the the bot commented the same thing that was in the the comment above. Somebody commented and it commented the same thing as in the comment above. So it was just like it was regurgitating the one argument that it had loaded in it. Yeah. It was yeah, it was really obvious it's it's bots, and then of the people that that are protesting against it, uh, they all seem to just be hung up on the fact that there's a gay Klingon or a female Jem Hadar Klingon hybrid. So um, yeah, it it it's ridiculous, and and you know, most of the people that that are out there spouting hate about it haven't even watched the a full episode of it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

And like uh and and the gem had dar is gay too.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yes, she is, yeah. But no one's current no one's no part of the part of the backlash is there's gay sex in in this, and actually, no, the only sex scene in the entire season was heterosexual. Yeah. You know, between Caleb Muir and his girlfriend.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

So uh I'm guessing there wasn't actual Klingon gay sex because they couldn't afford the second penis for the Klingon.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

No. Or the knoblys at the end.

SPEAKER_02 7:12

Yeah, and I'm thinking, if I remember back in my lore, I don't think I think Klingons are asexual, they don't care. If I if I remember correctly.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

No, there's there's male and female distinction.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Well, there's male male and female, but as far as sexual attraction, it's possible. That's possible. It's not, it's not, and I think I think that's why they developed two penises, so they could have one with one and one with the other. Makes brings interesting things to three ways, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah. So yeah, yeah. Speaking of mergers, I'm sure that everyone knows that the the mergers of Skydance with Paramount and the upcoming acquisition of Warner Discovery rely heavily on approval from the Trump administration. So I'm not gonna say anything else about that. But that is probably a big a big thing. Uh David Ellison is uh an opportunistic businessman. He has sided with with uh with Republicans when they're in power and Democrats when they're in power. Uh he he's truthfully a businessman that doesn't give a shit about uh good programs. And I mean the the other thing is the ratings, when you're only putting it on streaming, you can't go by the old ratings system.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

No, you can't because the television went by.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

And that's the thing, these studios have not gotten through their head. No, people will watch it when they are ready to watch it, and sometimes you know, we've got busy schedules, everybody does, and we don't get a chance to watch things right as they come out.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

So from the holes on streaming point to streaming. Yeah, that was watch on your time. That was it.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

So yeah, I think I think they really need to rethink their their you know metrics model because it's not it's not working for them.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

No.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Uh so after the cancellations, Shatner uh spoke up uh and kind of uh put Stephen Miller in his place, and I thought this was beautiful, so I'm gonna read it out in in full. Uh William said, Star Trek exists in more than one world. It exists in the fantasy of science fiction, weird and wonderful things that play unimaginable possibilities of exploration and human endeavor. It also exists in the fantasy of human beings, the perfection of human beings, the exploration that human beings have made since the dawn of time, and the continuing exploration physically, mentally, and morally. It's that aspect of Star Trek that I've always loved, to look at something physically that doesn't exist now by these talented writers and designers, but also to tackle the eternal human questions, the agonies, the ecstasies. Star Trek should exist for a long time to come based on those truths. I, for one, would love to see its continuity. It is with sorrow that I hear about the cancellation of the new Star Trek series. So, I mean, he uh I mean given given the fact that Bill is a little bit right-wing himself, um, you know, he pretty much slapped uh Stephen Miller down with that.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

I also seem to remember there was something doing rounds on social media from I think it was Gene Roddenberry's autobiography, where basically he says that you know he didn't see himself necessarily as straight or gay or whatever. Um and that he was open to kind of everything.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Well, uh yeah, Jonathan Frankes wanted wanted uh Riker to be by, but the the studio wouldn't hear of it at that time.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah, I mean, and you think about the original series, there's those the the one planet where everybody was whatever and open sex. I mean, that was very very 60s in and of itself. It was but um uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Actually, they they had they had uh he that gentleman that was the leader of that hippie group uh was actually in Deep Space Nine later as a general at Area 51.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

So yeah, pretty funny. Yeah. Right. Uh but uh yeah, I mean there's there's always been sex in Star Trek. Uh I mean Shatner banged every conceivable species he could get to bang.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

I mean, in every one penis.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah. It's travel. Well, there was that teleporter accident, but we don't talk about that. That's true, yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

But, anyways, uh yeah, I think science fiction has always been a part of my life, uh, be it Doctor Who, Star Trek, Star Wars, and so many others that I'm not gonna go on listing because we'll be here all day. Uh the best sci-fi pulls you into the story and makes you believe that you have a place in that universe. One of the most important things I've learned from Doctor Who is that just because the studio cancels the show, it doesn't mean the story is over. During the wilderness years of Doctor Who, talented writers and fans kept the story alive and added so many great stories and adventures to the Hooniverse. Star Trek may be getting uh to enter its own period of dormacy. For how long uh no one but the exec Paramount know. But I'm sure there are millions of talented fans out there who will fill Star Trek's wilderness years with novels, fan productions, comics, video games, and most of all, love for the franchise and characters that have made you feel joy. So good sci-fi never dies.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

And in fact, they've already announced uh two comic books, and there's always been novellas and novels that have come out of the city.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Well, and because Paramount's yeah, and because of Paramount's the one good thing Paramount did years ago, uh I think it was after the first cancellation of Star Trek, was allow fans to do fan productions of Star Trek. So there are fan productions out there that are part of canon because they're allowed in you know the copyright of Star Trek.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

And bizarrely, um one of the Doctor Who audio fan groups that I do voice work for, they have just literally, I think it was yesterday, um, announced that they are gonna start doing Doctor Who, uh sorry, doing Star Trek audios as well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And so there's I mean, huge. Don't don't be sad. Uh I mean it is a sad time, but uh just remember that uh it's not going away. Star Trek's huge. I mean, it's almost been around as long as Doctor Who. Um it's I mean, it's as close as any sci-fi series has come, I think.

SPEAKER_02 13:19

It just takes somebody with money to revamp the process. I mean, you think about how Abrams revamped it, and you know, and and you've got all that other stuff that came up. And you look at old series that got new life, the Mission Impossible series. Oh, yeah. It came up after 20 years in in the wilderness. So I don't think Star Trek's going away.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Uh, it's just that we don't have anything new for I mean, well, it's a couple of bad even bad sci-fi series. The Tomorrow People got a CW reboot.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Yeah, it was horrible, but can I just say that the Tomorrow people actually I think hold the record uh for the series that has been cancelled and rebooted more times than any other.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

And because it's a fantastic premise, it's a great premise, it's just been poorly done. I mean future. Even poorly done, it's still fun to watch. Yeah, but even poorly done, it's still fun to watch. I I've yeah, I've gone back and watched the the original British ones numerous times, and they're they're fun. Um you know, and it's it's just you know, I know that you know what I'm gonna say now is gonna sound weird because I because we critique some of these Doctor Who episodes and spin-offs and stuff and series, but uh you know, shitting on a series just because somebody told you you should shit on it is is bad. And yeah, the fact of the matter is while we sometimes may have harsh criticisms for the Doctor Who episodes or spin-offs that we've that we've discussed on here, there it always comes from a place of love. We love this, we love the product, and we wouldn't have watched it if we would do a podcast about something that they actively hated, yeah. Right, right. Uh well Republicans. Republicans do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

But yeah, it's it it's it's coming from a place of love. When we critique it, it's just because we love the the product so much. We don't want to see it go off the air. That's that's the difference. Uh, you know, if you want if you want to see somebody's favorite show go off the air, you're just kind of a dick. I mean, yeah, if you're thinking about writing something negative about a show you've never watched just because you heard it had gay people in it, just don't do it. Just keep it to yourself. That's you know, that's all I have to say about that.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

I'm gonna st I'm gonna start a heterophobia movement.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

I've I've I've already been I've already been self-declared heterophobic for years. Uh what they what they do behind closed doors, up to them. Their own business. Yeah. I mean just for one of a better explanation, I was very done off votes.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

I was kind of heterophobic in in the States. Uh down here in Chile, it's it's quite a bit different. Uh most people just mind their own business. I can go down the street holding hands with Ziggy, I can, you know, I can give him a kiss in the street, in the market, whatever, it doesn't matter. Nobody pays attention.

SPEAKER_02 16:11

Right. And and in many, and in many, many cultures, males kissing each other and holding hands in public is common.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

It's common. It's very common. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Even even if you're gay, or that if there's not even a couple. I mean, yeah, you're friends, you hold hands. That's what you do. And exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

And hell, even the rampantly heterosexual football world, sorry, sucker world. You score a goal and then it's every man for himself.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

You know, it's two to one because grabbing and ass grabbing all sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

It's it's two to one now because uh I live in a place where it's football also.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, our our Trump administration wants to change the name. Yeah. Of all the things that they could worry about, let's change the name of football, shall we? Yes. Anyway, first to have everybody change the name of soccer to something else so that it wasn't confusing. Oh, yeah. Then he realized I can't change the name. So he tried to bomb things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Should we get on to Bad Wolf? Let's get on to Bad Wolf. Um, so um where to start? Uh it's a meme spread throughout time and space as graffiti and whispers, uh, an episode title, an entity, and the name of the production company that produces Doctor Who. Um it's a lot to unpack, so let's start with the meme and then the entity, and we'll skip the episode title and production company because that's pretty self-explanatory. Yeah. Um, I mean, it's just it is what it is. Uh so the bad wolf meme was created by the bad wolf to serve as breadcrumbs to lead Rose Tyler back to where she needed to be to save the ninth doctor from the game station. It also ensured that Rose would be in the tenth doctor's life as well. Uh TARDIS graffiti was the first time that the Ninth Doctor had direct contact with the phrase bad wolf. The phrase was most commonly found in graffiti during the 20th and 21st centuries, but the first chronological occurrence was in 1592, where a tavern sign showed the picture of a wolf's head and the initials BW. It later occurred in 1869 when Gwynneth, a parlor maid with clairvoyance, looked into Rose's mind and declared that she had seen the big bad wolf. It appeared all over uh the Doctor and Rose's timestream as a meme, a warning, and clues for Rose to follow.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

Now I have to say, when that uh the sign on the tavern showed up, it was I mean, they didn't focus on it or anything, they just breezed on past it. And I was like, I went back and I watched it again. It's like there that Easter egg Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

That wasn't on TV though, that particular reference. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. It was in an episode. I don't remember. That particular one, the tavern sign with B and W is from the comic strips.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

No, it was in an episode. Because I went back and watched it again. The only thing about Bad Wolf that I remembered when you said you were gonna do this episode was that tavern sign. So the only place I would have seen it was in that episode.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Well, you know, they are kind of cheeky and they sneak stuff in all the time.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

All the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

I need to work out which episode it is now because Yeah, I'll have to look, I'll have to look back in the in my notes and see if I can figure out which episode it was. So uh let's get on to the to the bad wolf entity. So after Rose Tyler looked into the heart of the TARDIS and directly into the time vortex, she became the bad wolf. Uh and scattered her name throughout time as a sign to herself that she was linked to the ninth doctor, creating a looped ontological paradox. So think chicken and the egg, for those that don't know the weird phrasing of that. Um but uh because I had to look it up. I'm like, that's an ontological paradox. It's a bootstrap paradox. It's or the chicken and the egg paradox. Um but uh the bad wolf is at least in some part connected to and or is an aspect of the moment. The bad wolf is both nigh omnipotent and omniscient, and near infinite manipulative abilities, including reality warping and fate manipulation, immortality with immunity to anything which could negate it. Uh it could also create immortality to other life forms, or grant immortality to other life forms, dead or alive, Captain Jack Hartnest being one of one such person. Uh Bad Wolf was also capable of massive destruction, such as reducing the entire Dalek fleet to mere atoms. It could perceive the entirety of time and space and use that to seed its own its own name throughout it so that Rose Tyler would eventually come back to be the Bad Wolf in the first place. Uh, however, as the Bad Wolf was created from Rose Tyler a human, the entity could lose control of its own power. The Ninth Doctor remarked that no life form was capable of containing the full force of the time vortex, and that a time lord with those abilities would become a benchful god. Uh to that end, the ninth doctor absorbed the time vortex from Bad Wolf to save Rose's life, which caused the Ninth Doctor to regenerate uh to heal the extreme cellular destruction that absorbing that much power caused. And so that's a little bit of an overview of the Bad Wolf entity, uh, but not the end of her story. Even after the Ninth Doctor sacrifices regeneration to save Rose, there were instances of the name popping up throughout time. Whispers and signs of the Bad Wolf still crop up. The moment took the form of Rose as Bad Wolf, and the War Doctor called her the Bad Wolf Girl, which was odd to the 10th and 11th doctors, as the War Doctor should not have ever encountered Rose or Bad Wolf.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

So although being omniscient and omnipresent.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Why did the war doctor know who she was? So that was that was what uh what confused the 10th and 11th.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

I I think I think the word why and war doctor just go together really quite naturally a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I still love the character. Oh yeah. I mean, and Gosh dang it, it was it was so good seeing him before he passed away uh do something as as awesome as as Doctor Who. So um yeah. It's uh another one of those very will be missed actors.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

So that would be kind of explaining why when uh the regeneration scene in the current doctor when she woke up and said, Well, hello there, uh think she is fully cognizant of who she is and what she is coming into the next uh season, Caesar series.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

It's strange because um I mean the the closing credit just said introducing Billy Piper. We don't we don't know right.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

We don't know if it's the moment, the bad wolf, or it's actually just the doctor wearing Rose's face.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Yeah, it's strange because it if you re-watch that first regeneration of Eccleston to Tennant, Tenant's first words are oh hello, and Billy Piper's first words are oh hello, and basically Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah. Um Well, I mean, having been the Bad Wolf, there's every possibility that she did retain some memories of of that the you know that Bad Wolf. I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

But what have we got? Eight months to f eight months till we find out?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm I'm looking forward to it because uh it it'd be really interesting if it's not the doctor. Or if you're thinking T.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Davis is looking forward to finding out who it is as well.

unknown 23:35

Yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:36

I'm sure Billy is as well.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, she's probably like, who am I?

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Yeah, yeah. Should be interesting, if to say the least.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Definitely. Uh I'm I'm kind of I I I don't know because uh it's uh it's weird. It definitely was a weird placement. Uh I mean we know why she got the placement, but uh right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

And and and the the crack in the time vortex, is that it was that that was clearly part of the the bad wolf scenarios.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Right? No, the crack in the time vortex was the Pandora explosion bang thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Okay. So many things. I mean, because the the time vortex, of course, was part of the bad wolf, and then so you've got a lot of crossover with some of these stories that they could take in the fact that the fact that you know when Rose whispered um bad wolf to oh gosh dang it, what was her name?

SPEAKER_01 24:45

I'm just yeah, yes. I just blinked. I'm still on cold medicine, so uh yeah. My brain is a little mushy right now. But uh yeah, when he when she whispered it to her, it you know helped. And then uh apparently Bad Wolf also saved another one of the doctor's uh companions by depositing her with the 12th doctor when she got in the Titan Comics.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

Yes.

unknown 25:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Which more of which in a moment.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah, that's kind of uh, you know. If she was omniscient, she could have gone anywhere in the blink of an eye and and been back before the doctor even noticed.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Umniscient and omnipresent. I mean, you know, yes, everywhere all at once.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah. Yeah. Everywhere all at once goes. Yeah, oh, now I get the title. Yes. Great movie, by the way. Okay. I liked it. I liked it.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

Okay. So, Mike, you said you revisited it.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

What were your thoughts on it? It's a long storyline, and it is a it's a very how should I say this? Well, I mean, the whole storyline is set up as breadcrumbs. And so you've got you've got breadcrumbs throughout. And if you think about it, if you start looking back at some of the episodes where the breadcrumbs are, you really didn't pick up on them in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Yeah, it took me like two or three episodes of seeing Bad Wolf graffiti to like, hey, why is that showing up all over the place?

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah, and I kind of wonder if it wasn't something that was thought of long ago that they just kind of sprinkled in, and then someone in the writer's room said, you know, we should kind of tie all this shit together. Uh it was it's good. I'd like to hope it was a long player. So um, yeah. It was a long way though, but I explained it to my husband that we were doing this uh bad wolf, and he says, he looked at me because he watched the entire thing with me years ago. And I said, remember that whole that whole story arc? He was like, uh, I said, You bought me a sticker to put on the back of my car.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Well, I mean, it's it is the entirety of you know nine's whole run.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Yeah, exactly. Yes. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

And part of tens. So uh yeah, it's a it's a pretty long storyline, and and I thought uh if as far as RTD, if if he engineered this and put it forward, I thought it's one of the best scripted things he's done in Doctor Who. Do you want me to do you want me to tell you the truth, son?

unknown 27:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yes, tell us the truth. Okay, right. Because I didn't dig into the production stuff because I knew you would be digging into it. Yeah, so first off, let's deal with the TV stuff. Um it was kind of commented on at the time and everything. Yeah, there's loads of speculation. There was even a Bad Wolf website set up with fake speculation. I remember that now. Um, right. Brilliant book, by the way. If you are interested in the making of television, then Doctor Who's The Inside Story is great. And basically, in this and a few other places, Russell T. Davis admits that kind of because the Aliens of London Two Party was the first one they shot. Yeah. So they just spray painted Bad Wolf on the TARDIS on a whim because he says it's the kind of thing he would have done as a kid. Um yeah, and basically, Mike, you are correct. They suddenly realized that yeah, um, we can put these bread crumbs in, and oh shit, we've got to actually do something with them. And apparently um Russell C. Days didn't kind of make it explicit to all the other writers. So, for example, in uh the Empty Child of Doctor Dances, in the dialogue, there is no reference to Bad Wolf. Okay. According to production history and everything, whether or not it's true, I'm not gonna, you know, say. But apparently, someone in the props department had picked up on this bad wolf thing. And they had taken it on themselves to spray paint it on the side of the bomb that Captain Jack is riding. Oh. So there was never even supposed to be a Bad Wolf reference in that two-parter.

unknown 29:29

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

It just happened to fall into it because someone behind the scenes thought it would be a new in-joke that, oh, it was graffiti on the TARDIS, let's graffiti it on the bomb. Yeah. Okay. Right. Um, and then we get to the expanded universe. Right. This is now This is where it can go really wibbly wobbly. No, this is where it can go kind of, wow, they really knew what they were doing, to what the fuck were they doing in the space of about it turns out that only some people got the memo. Right. Okay. So, for example, uh, this is the uh graphic the trade paperback of the Ninth Doctor comic strips. Okay. And Ninth Doctor only around for a year. Um, so given that they were multi-part comic strips, there weren't exactly that many Ninth Doctor ones that kind of were done. There is no bad wolf reference in the first one that they did, um, called The Love Invasion. And in fact, most of the other ones didn't have a bad wolf reference. But and yeah, because yeah, when I saw that comment, I thought I'll check and I'll find out. Yeah. The tavern one, I don't know how well it will appear, is there. That is a pub, pub with a wolf on its pub sign and BW um either side of it. So what you saw on TV, I now desperately want to know.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

Um because I when I read that, I could have sworn I saw it on TV too. I didn't have a chance to go back to the street.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

All I'm saying is if that's how they snuck it into the comic strips, thank God it wasn't bad jackal. Yeah. Right. But say only one of the contemporaneous Ninth Doctor comic strips had it in there. Okay. Um you've then got the contemporaneous Ninth Doctor and Rose Annual, which doesn't have any Bad Wolf references in. And at the time, there were six full-length novels of Ninth Doctor and Rose stories. Five of them had Bad Wolf references in. Wow. Okay. One of them um was it was the name of a computer game that Mickey had laying around in his flat. Um in one of the other ones, uh Rose myth quotes says, you know, like rather than saying like a bad penny, I always come back, she accidentally says, like a bad wolf, I always come back. Yeah. Oh. Um and in the other four, sorry, in the other three, there are either the Rose, either Rose or the Doctor actively using bad wolf as they phrase as part of what they're saying. But yeah, the sixth novel didn't have it in at all. And it's just like, oh, okay, yeah. Um so it depends kind of how literally you want to take the idea that Rose scattered it back through her timeline. You know, did she just kind of like forget this particular book where she kind of you know um was running around with Captain Jack and then the Deandertal? Um, you know, did she kind of you know forget the annual stories? Um and so yeah, at the time, most people were slipping it in. Um a couple of things, you know, got omitted. But then yeah. Troy's ninth doctor era, really short. Yeah. Right. You go back then to about 2020 or so. I need to check the exact date because I need to do it for something else I'm doing. Um and the interestingly different Time Lord Victorious multi-platform event. Mm-hmm. Um, it's kind of worrying, actually. We're April at the moment, and we haven't had any details about the short circuit or closed circuit or whatever circuit it is multi-platform thing that's supposed to be happening this year either. Uh anyway. Um Yeah. Wondering if it's gotten pushed. No idea. It's gone very quiet on that front. But yeah. I I couldn't find anything. There was a multi-doctor event called Time Lord Victorious. Um just please, someone one day can you explain Time Lord Victorious to me. But it was uh it was uh a thing that involved the ninth, tenth, and the eighth doctors. Um the ninth doctor got a brand new three-part comic strip. The ninth doctor also appeared in uh a novel which was part of the Time Lord Victorious, but because Time Lord Victorious was its own thing, kind of in a sort of damaged timeline, from what I can gather, there's no bit there's no Bad Wolf references in it at all. Um And then we get to modern day. And at the moment, Big Fingish every other month are releasing a new Ninth Doctor and Rose audio adventure. And so far, all of the ones they've released have had Bad Wolf references in. Um so yeah, it's kind of like, you know The expanded universe has always baffled me. It's kind of like, you know, should it tie in with these things? Shouldn't it? I mean, the uh the 11th Doctor and Amy novels, they didn't bother with, for want of a better expression, Amy's problematic crack. Okay. They just um basically, as far as the books were concluded concerned, it was closed and done, um, and no one was interested in it. Yeah. So it was standalone things. The ninth doctor, once I said, had bad wolf references in just because it was like two words they could slip in. Um the ones featuring the Shuti Gatwa Doctor, they have got mentions of the Vindicator in and trying to get back. It's and it's really weird, you know, trying to work out you know how much um there should be kind of crossover between these story arcs and you know what's going on in the expanded universe. Um I've never really got my head around what the ideal version would be. I think Bad Wolf got away with it because it was just two words, you know, and they were very easy to put into the background detail on posters. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

I mean you could miss it, you'd missed it a lot of times the first watch through.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

Yeah. Um the problem I have with Bad Wolf is that it does kind of show up RTD um for not being a particularly foreplanning type of person, and B not being a particularly imaginative type of person, because in series two he basically re-ran the Bad Wolf thing, but replaced Bad Wolf with Torchwood and had that crop up in every episode, you know, and then in you know in series three it was sort of like, yep, oh Mr. Saxon is this this season's kind of you know um it's the thing that crops up. And if you then jump forward to the second RTV era, of course, in season one you had um Mrs. Twist appearing in every episode in some form or another, and then in that you know, basically it is his plot line, um you know, plotline singular. Um it's it was great at the time, I loved it at the time. Um but you do realize now, especially once you realize that yeah, uh it was someone in the visual effects department that spray painted bad Wolf onto the German bomb. In very bad German, I might add. Not that I speak German, yeah. Um it it's got Schleit Schleiding of something on there, but apparently that's not what it should be translated as.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Yeah. Um I I remember hearing something about that uh when it came out that some Germans were like, well, that's not what that's not gonna say bad woman.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Um because of course, uh in series one, you know, the the the TV newsroom is called Mal Loop, bad wolf kind of thing, yeah. But again, that's not the not the correct translation. Yeah. Right. Um but it is a lovely idea, but yeah, it does create issues for the expanded universe type things. Um and I think Doctor Who needs kind of to get its act together and decide what if you know, is it gonna kind of try and link everything together? Is it gonna kind of try and um have expanded universe and TV episodes? Um, because of course, you know, all the stuff that was put into the books about the Vindicator and everything, I suspect that was all written before they then ended up rewriting lots of series 2 and so whether or not the expanded universe actually is coherent in as part of these plot lines when the plot is more than just a couple plot the plot arc is more than just a couple of words slotted in.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the trouble though, you know, for for they've got to put out writers guides that give enough information about the current season to allow them to make something that's could be coherent. But the they don't want to give away too much because of the fear of it slipping out and and ruining the television series, which they spend a lot of money on.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

I mean, I'm I'm of the opinion that basically RTD needs diapers because he leaks more than anyone else I know. True. I I'm honestly not sure if they're gonna allow him to continue. Well, I think we uh with without getting too far into the realms of speculation, the wording of the press release when it was announced about the Christmas special this year does rather heavily imply that he's not coming back after Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

Yeah. One rumor I've heard is that it's they're possibly gonna have Moffett come back, which uh anyway.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Let's not make James cry. Let's not make yeah, let's not make James cry today. Well, not unless it's in the good way. Anyway, which we'll get to in a minute. Um so yeah, I've got mixed feelings about it. Um I'm gonna end my bit if I can find the relevant page reference again. One day I will actually um remember to mark the pages in the thing. Yeah, I just I've I've had a I've had a really confusing week. Um so yeah, I just like it.

SPEAKER_01 41:04

Me too. Trying to do taxes for you know for an expat is a lot of fun. Turns out I didn't need to worry and rush because we get till June 15th to file our taxes.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

So good for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

It's gonna cost me a boatload of money, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Yeah, well.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, home. Because yeah, I mean, they talked about in this book the the Making TV series, you know, they they talk about the kind of like the fake ending with the kind of the where Billy dies rather than Eccleson dying, and they were talking about, yeah. Right. Right. Um, so an important part of that, and one that no one, least of all, Russell T. Davies had predicted, was the whole bad wolf theme that ran through the series and culminated in the Parting of the Ways. It was when articles about bad wolf references started appearing in the broadsheet press that I thought things were out of control. You see, it doesn't stand up to that much scrutiny, Russell confesses. I wrote that kid spray painting Bad Wolf on the side of the TARDIS because it's the sort of thing I do to keep myself entertained when I'm writing a script. I remember wondering why he did it and where those words had come from. I always wanted something slightly linking things together, something for the keen-eyed fans to spot each week, but it had to be a bit insignificant, just a bit of fun. We didn't want a great big arc because it's Saturday night and your mainstream audience doesn't need to get bogged down in that sort of stuff. Could Russell T. Davis era two please read what he wrote about big bogged down arcs?

unknown 42:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

And Saturday night audiences.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

I I'd like to point I'd like to point something out going back to what I'd mentioned before. Um, the BW Tavern that I saw. I was doing some research while you were talking. It's actually in Game of Thrones and it stands for blood and wine. But it's actually a a thing with a wolf, and it says BW on it, and I thought bad wolf when I saw it.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

So and knowing the way that a lot of shows like to like to slide in Easter eggs from their favorite shows, it's probably that then. And that's that's probably where I saw it as well.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Then yeah, there you go. So I wanted to fix myself. There you go. I didn't want to send James down a rabbit hole trying to find that episode.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

So speaking of finding episodes, the big news that arose since our last recording arose out of nowhere. Well, except of course if you listen to one of our episodes from about four months ago when I said there was an announcement coming. Right. Right. So out of nowhere for our watchers. And I mean, it did actually catch everyone by surprise. Uh because normally, when there is an announcement like this, they kind of tease it and they say, you know, there's going to be an announcement in a few days, or, you know, stay tuned to the official Doctor Who social media tomorrow. It's like, no, out of nowhere, film is fabulous, says, Oh, by the way, we've got two episodes of Doctor Who we didn't have before. Um, yeah. It was like what huh? And within three weeks of the announcement, they were up on BBC iPlayer, available for yeah. So seriously, you know, it it was announced after we've recorded the last episode. And since then, they've been uploaded, we've watched them, and yeah. Um and so rather than doing the playlist this week, um, do something slightly different, which does sort of bring in playlists. Um, but yeah, uh Doctor Who is a little bit unlucky, but Doctor Who fans are obscenely lucky, okay?

SPEAKER_01 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

So um we'll do the missing episodes part first, okay? Because yeah, um, even with the two that we have just had back, there are still 95 episodes of Doctor Who for which we do not have the the video, okay? Mm-hmm. And everyone goes, Oh, this is so shocking, yeah. Why do they do this? And you know, there's for decades there's been people going, oh, oh, it was a criminal, the BBC shouldn't have got rid of it. Right. Um, this is a a spool uh an empty spool of reel for film, okay? Mm-hmm. This would hold one episode of Doctor Who. Mm-hmm. Okay. And if you think, okay, so in the very first season of Doctor Who, there were, I think it's 40-something episodes.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Were they shooting on 16mm?

SPEAKER_00 45:41

I'll get I'll get to that in a minute.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Okay. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Because I just noticed that that's an awful small reel. Yeah, no, um, it's the only one I had laying around.

unknown 45:51

Oh, okay. All right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

Sorry, I broke the magic. Yeah, no. Um, but basically, you know, 40-something episodes of Doctor Who in its first series mean 40-something of these.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

And that's just for one Saturday night thing, you know. And basically, you know, these things are big, they're bulky, they're a bitch to store. You know, the contents of them get mildewed.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

You know.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yes. And that's when they don't burst into flames. Well, especially when you don't throw them into the furnace, they don't burst into flames.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Yeah, well, nitrocellulose has been known to catch fire. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

And the sad truth of the matter is that the BBC were making Doctor Who with the aim of showing it once to the British public if they throw it in a way, maybe get a bit of cash by flogging it abroad a couple of times, all well and good. But at the end of the day, if you think, you know, so one year of Doctor Who needs 40 of these, 45 of them or whatever, as does, well, Doctor Who's only 25-minute episodes, so you know, you'd need twice as twice the size for a 50-minute episode type thing. There's just no, you know, they've been sold abroad, BBC weren't going to show them again. Why would you store it?

SPEAKER_01 47:15

You know, it's it's also the yeah, the BBC has other shows as well.

SPEAKER_00 47:20

Yeah. Um, and realistically, as I said, I mean back then repeat seasons were not a thing. You didn't have streaming, you didn't have you know, there was if you wanted to watch, for example, the the Peter Cushing movies, you couldn't even buy those as a as a kind of a home cinema. But you could buy eight-minute extracts from them that were in black and white, and I think they were silent, you know, so you could, yeah, and they had captions, yeah. So it's like, you know, there was no home media market, there was no expectation that these things were gonna, you know. And I do wonder, you know, what do people think the BBC were gonna do? Were they just gonna like build warehouse upon warehouse the same way that we're building data centers, you know, just to store these cans of film that may or may not be, you know, um viewed again. So, I mean it's it is tragic, it is genuinely tragic. Yeah, um, but if the BBC was spending has spent all that money on kind of new film, because I mean they reuse some of these things, you know, there's odds and ends on everything, you know. But if the BBC felt having to spend money on building warehouses to store them in, archive them in, you know, keep track of them, they're not gonna have money to make programs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Um now, if you go back 40 45 years or so, okay. 45 years or so ago was really when the public became aware of how shit the BBC archives were. Um so for example, there was uh just after Tom left and before Peter Davison took over, there was a repeat season called The Five Faces of Doctor Who. Yes, yes. Um there's trailers for it on a lot of the DVD releases and stuff, you know. And the Patrick Trouton story that was chosen was the Crotons. Which let's just say that if that's the top-ranking Patrick Trouton ones and there's the middle ranking Patrick Trouton ones, the Crotons is down there somewhere. Right. It's in the sub-basis. It's you have to dig for it. Yeah. Uh it's not quite the worst one, but we'll get to that in a minute. Um people saying, well, why have you you know, why have you shown the Crotons? You know, why didn't you show such and such? And the BBC had to say, because we don't have the video anymore. Yeah. Um and basically you start people started writing to the BBC, and they would start to send out this is what we've got in the archives, and it's like missing, missing, missing, missing, missing. In the last 45 years, we have had about 41 episodes recovered. Okay. The other thing that doesn't always get mentioned is that okay, in this film is fabulous thing. We've got two episodes that have come back from the Dalek Master Plan. There are actually also, I think it's another four episodes that were already in the archive, but these copies are better than the ones that they've got in the archive.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

Yes. I heard that they were they were really well preserved.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Yeah. Um the fact that, say, it took them three weeks from announcing it to getting it on iPlayer shows how good quality they were to be able to scan them and upload them.

SPEAKER_01 50:45

There wasn't a lot of cleanup to have to be done. I I heard the some of the articles I read were mentioning that, yeah, they were nearly pristine.

SPEAKER_00 50:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Um very odd for a film that old.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Yeah. Uh so you know, but that's basically, you know, why we managed to get so many back. It's because they've fallen, stolen, into the hands of collectors. Um, people who worked at the BBC snuck them out because they knew they were going to be disposed of and they fancied having them for themselves. Um, and then over the years, some prints have come back from Hong Kong, from all kinds of places. And yeah, there's still 95 episodes missing, but yay, two episodes from the Dalek Master Plan have come back. Um, they're on iPlayer. And the big question that some people were saying is like, oh, why is the BBC making such a big fuss about this? You know, it's just two episodes of Doctor Who. Well, first off, let's go back to the start when you're talking about Star Trek. It's like, yeah, after next year there's going to be no new Star Trek to watch. Yeah. We've now got two episodes of Doctor Who that haven't been seen since 1965. Yeah, so that's true. I wasn't I wasn't even alive. So um. And then you start to delve deeper into Doctor Who missing episodes. And this for me is the more interesting bit. Okay. So we'll skip all the rumors about why some episodes were saved, why some episodes were junked. Yes, lots were sold abroad.

SPEAKER_01 52:22

And going back to your 16mm comment, the way they did it was that they basically projected the TV episode onto the wall and filmed it on a 16mm so that it could be a lot, a lot of uh a lot of early US stuff is was done that way too when it was when it was shipped abroad. Um because 16 millimeters cheaper and you know they're they're easier to you know they're they're easier to deal with than a 35mm projector.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Yeah. So basically, um you know, we sent these out. First very interesting comment, um, which again, let's just say is not 100% relevant to modern day politics much. Um yeah. Not every story was sold to every country. Right.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Because of because of decency laws and well, no, I'll get to those bits in a minute.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

Uh, for example, you know, um let's just say that the William Hartnell story that dealt with the Crusades and Palestine and all that lot wasn't necessarily sold abroad um because it might be seen to be diplomatically um problematic. Yeah. And it's it's why um so the story before the crusade is the Web Planet, and it's actually why on the early VHS release of The Web Planet it doesn't have next episode The Crusade or The Lion, as the first episode was called, because actually the copy that we had had been edited abroad with new credits put on so that it could then be going to the yeah, right. So there's a very interesting kind of like, oh, that episode wasn't shown abroad. Why wasn't that one showed abroad? Why wasn't that one here? Um the real tragedy is that the seventh episode of Dalek Master Plan is probably never gonna be found. Um there's an official ranking of kind of likelihoods. And episode seven of the Dalek Master Plan is right at the bottom because it was shown on Christmas Day. Oh. And it doesn't feature the Daleks, it doesn't really link into the other episodes of the story at all. So basically, it could be sold abroad rather than a 12-part story, it could be sold abroad as an 11-part story. And still make perfect sense, yeah. Yeah. Um so yeah, there's all the kind of the politics of like, you know, which countries got it, which countries didn't, stuff like that. And then we get to Australia and that region of the world. Yes, right. My region of the world. It's one of these things that you know, everyone says, Oh, you know, I've I've seen 60s doctor, it wasn't scary at all, kind of thing. You know, yeah. Um well here's the problem we can prove that it was scary because we have the censor clips. Okay. And basically, this is this is really bizarre. There are some episodes which are missing, but we still have really short segments from because the Australian censors cut them out because they were too violent or too scary or too terrifying for their broadcast, and they just sent them the stuff back to us. So, from uh the William Hartnell story, for example, the smugglers, we have someone being kind of knifed, you know, knife thrown, ah, you know. Um, we have some bits from the Patrick Thousand story, Fury from the Deep, of people with mutated hands and stuff like that because it was you know deemed too scary. The Macro Terror, the clip of the Macra attacking Ben and Polly. We still have it because it was deemed too scary. Yes, we laugh at it now. Believe me, we bloody laugh at it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Um spoiled with new effects. I mean, it's yeah, it's sometimes it's hard to watch those old things without without chuckling and saying, How was I so scared of this when I was a kid?

SPEAKER_00 56:37

But the fact that these clips were physically cut from the tapes because they were deemed too scary is an indication that do you know what? Doesn't matter that we laugh at them now. Back then, this was officially the scene in the Highlanders where the doctor is literally about to be hanged around the you know by the neck, you know, they cut out the kind of the bloke shouting, take the strain and kicking away the stool sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

Um Darling Masterplan episode one got a few interesting bits in because they say, you know, Darling Masterplan, very unusual in that there isn't really a huge amount of photographs for it, given its length. Okay. The only reason we've got so many pictures is because it was a 12-part story, therefore we've got you know lots of you know photos. Um, but there was a lot in the episode that we didn't know, and actually, there is a shot of a charred and burnt skeleton. It's like, how the fuck did that get left in? You know, it's just like what? Um and then the the the one that kind of shocked everyone the doctor's companion flashes a nipple at the camera. Yes, Steven shows his nipple. Not Katarina, not the female companion, it's the male.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Um Star Trek, Kirk did that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 58:15

Uh no, Kirk was a big tit. That's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

But he did end up shirtless in an inordinate amount of episodes.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

Yeah. Um so yeah, there's a lot in just these two episodes that there was no visual record for and has already made us re-evaluate how we saw certain characters. Um The Doctor has a short-term companion in these two episodes called Katarina. She joined at the end of the previous story. Um spoilers, she doesn't make it to the end of Dalek Master Plan. Okay. With with various reasons, both plot-wise and behind-the-scenes issues, which were for season three of Doctor Who, it was a nightmare. It really was, you know. Um but basically, you know, we have the audios of all the missing episodes. Because people such as Graham Strong, when they were broadcast, sat with a microphone up against his TV speaker and recorded them onto real-to-reel tape, you know. Oh wow. Yeah. So that is how we have all of the audios. Okay, that wasn't a BBC thing. That was fans pirating stuff so that it wouldn't go missing.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Well, you know, given the fact that that you guys have a television tax, I don't think that that they have any right to tell you you can't record something because you're paying for it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:48

But basically, Katarina she doesn't say much.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. A television tax? Oh god, they have to be.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Please don't ask me to explain it or justify it because it's terrible. You're gonna explain it off air.

SPEAKER_02 59:59

Go on, keep going. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Um, so Katarina, because of the nature of the companion, because she's a uh a Trojan handmaiden, she doesn't say too much. So in the audios that we have of the Dalek Master Plan stuff, she's a bit drippy, she's not really all that. But then you see her performance, and you suddenly we've got this work, my god, Hartnell is giving her doting looks. She's worshipping Hartnell as a god, but it's all visual, yeah. Right. Um there's also with the Dalek Master Plan a lot of production paperwork still exists. Um and some of it is quite bitchy. Um let's just say that it was not a happy production. And a well-known piece of paperwork has existed for quite some time where the production designers are really pissed off with the director, saying they are building a lot of wasted and unused scenery. Yeah. And that's just kind of like sat in the archives and sat in people, it's like, what's they talking about? Episode three comes back and you suddenly realize what they're talking about. Hmm. Because in episode three, they built an entire kind of swamp sort of set. You know, it took up about half the studio and it was used for one shot. Hmm. For one shot. And yeah. And suddenly you realise, ah, maybe these guys did have reason to complain, you know. Yeah. I would too. It's just, I mean, say, the more episodes that come back, the more we're gonna see, I think, just how creative some of these people were in the 60s. Okay. Um there's certain stories which are missing either episodes or entirety, where the audio thinks, how the hell did that look on screen? And in some cases, we now we we know that it probably didn't look that good because we've seen the sensor clips. But the more episodes that come back, we're suddenly seeing these kind of gems, we're seeing these kind of like shots and directions and stuff like that. We think we've got new appreciation for the characters, we've got new appreciation for the actors. Um and yeah, in episode three, we have the one, we have the magnificent moment where we realise that okay, we knew William Hartnell fluffed his line, okay, but we didn't know he fluffed it while staring straight into camera, really intense look on his face, and he fucked the line up totally. Um and to bring everything together, this is by chance, you know. I said, when you said it was when he said it was Bad Wolf last time, we didn't know Dalek Master Plan was coming back, so I didn't know that I was going to be talking about this kind of thing. Um the Daleks started pretty much the expanded universe. Oh Doctor Who started in 1963. In 1964, before there was even a Doctor Who annual. Oh wow. The Dalek Book. The Dalek Book, right. Um, in 1965, the Dalek World. Okay. And this is where we're heading with this. This is the 1966 one, the Dalek Outer Space Book. Wow, okay. And the amount of stuff that has made it into television Doctor Who in one way or another that originated in these books is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

Well, I mean, I will have to say the Daleks, as a you know, they were unique, you know, at the time, and and it and it was really kind of a cool thing. And I I I can imagine that kids were going gaga over them.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

Now, the reason this one is so important, this is essentially not the Dalek Outer Space Book, but it's the Dalek Master Plan Expanded Universe Bible. Oh, okay. Wow. Because in the Dalek Master Plan, the Doctor gets a second short-term companion called Sarah Kingdom, who worked for the SSS, the Special Space Security.

unknown 1:04:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:43

Yeah. And basically, this book is all about non-Doctor Who starring stories that don't feature Doctor Who but feature the SSS, including Sarah Kingdom. Um, you know, and it goes into detail about kind of you know the weaponry that they use, their special gadgets. Because when Terry Nation conceived the Dalek Master Plan, it wasn't actually originally supposed to be a 12-part epic. It was only supposed to be six parts, and it was supposed to be more James Bond-like. That is why Sarah Kingdom comes across very much as a James Bond girl or an Avengers girl. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's a that's a terrific spy name. Yeah. The tragic side of this, though, the really sad bit, there was another reason why they wanted to make this the Dalek Master Plan SSS Bible time thing. Because in television terms, the uh 67 story, Evil of the Daleks, either 67 or 68, was supposed to be the last ever Dalek story. Hence, seemingly at the end of the Daleks are totally wiped out. Because Terry Nation wanted to take the Daleks to America and do. The SSS versus the Daleks as a TV show. That is why the Daleks cease to be on screen after the end of season four until season uh nine. Because basically Terry Nation has tried to take them to America, has paraded this book around. This is what we're offering you, and the network said, What are they then? Because Doctor Who hadn't made it over to America. Right. Um, it's a good series now.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

Yeah. Right. I mean, if they made that series now, that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

Okay, so there was a pilot script put together, which Big Fingers have bastardised into a one CD release. Um, you know, called The Destroyers, which is what it was gonna be, you know. So basically there is a flavor of it out there. Okay, um and the whole Dalek expanded universe stuff, there's even uh I don't I think it's now I think it stopped quite a long time ago, but all of the original Dalek comic strips from the 60s were turned into CGI animations by a very talented group of fans called Altered Vistas. Um and if you hunt around on the net on YouTube, ask me nicely, um, you know, they are you know these are you know like 50, you know, they're proper full-length animated things. And yeah, um the Daleks were the expanded universe, and as I said, some of the stuff has since made it into the kind of the the uh official lore of Doctor Who. The the Dalek unit of time, the RHEL, first appears in the Dalek book. Um, it appears as a unit of water pressure, but we'll forget about that for the time being. A unity unit. So yeah, um there is talk that there will be more coming back. Um Film is Fabulous, have already said though, please do not pester them, please do not email them, please do not bombard them. They are dealing with really tricky negotiations, okay? Um So yeah. There's the likelihood of more. That is the only wording that I think can be used. As to which ones, you know, there was the rumour that the entirety of Marco Polo had come back a few years ago. Yeah. And that's the problem. There's there's been rumors for the last 45 years about, oh, an episode is about to come back. Um they come back when they come back. All I'll say is, yeah. The lovely thing is, you know, Dalek Master Plan. All I'll say is watching the Dalek Master Plan, and you think, my god, hold on. That whole jungle set and the city set and the target, that's all in one bloody studio done as live. Right. And you realise just how much television has changed and how insanely talented and dedicated these original people were. And that is why Star Trek will come back, why Doctor Who will come back, why tomorrow people inevitably will come back for its we see these things and we get inspired by them. Okay, and that is all it takes. Fans get inspired, fans do well.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:03

Well, apparently, even certain big actors uh in Doctor Who have gotten inspired. Apparently, David Tennant is uh a big collector of Doctor Who memorabilia, including film.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Uh including the guest star, Georgina Moffat. Yeah, he's definitely a big fan of her. Yeah. So, Dalit Master Plan, uh, Chip says available on iPlayer. That means we now have five out of the 12, one of which won't ever come back. Um and yeah, there are photograph-based recons available. Uh, if you go to Daily Motion, there's a whole ton of them on there. Um if if you see a recon advertised as an AI recon. Yeah, they're terrible. Oh my god. I was I watched a clip last night of one just because I was feeling in the need of a pick-me-up. I'll send it to you guys later and you can just laugh your tits off as it believes you. Really bad, huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

Oh yeah. Looking forward to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Right. So playlists will return next time. So we've got the Lupari. Um, what was yours, Eric? I struggle to remember, but I will uh I was about to say, could you remind me what my one was because I forgot as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:22

I'll have to go back and look at the show notes because I did put them in last month's show notes.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

Okay, so what are we doing next month? Because I'm I'm desperately hoping that whatever you pick a missing episode will come back for us to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:33

Uh well, I doubt on this that that will happen. Uh next month we're gonna talk about my favorite other wearer of the long scarf. Romana? No. No, Osgood.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Oh, Osgood, right. Okay. That's gonna be an interesting one because that will act. I just remembered what my playlist was, and that will tie in with my playlist. Well, excellent. Yeah. And in fact, it will tie in with missing episodes as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

Oh well now.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

Who knows I was just thinking, who should we think about next month? Uh let's see. Uh oh, Osgood. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 1:12:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:13

Thanks for joining us on another journey through time and space with the doctor. Remember, you can support the show by liking and subscribing on YouTube or subscribing on BuzzSprout for as little as$3 a month. You can send us an email at threedo at gmail.com or a text from threedohoo.budssprout.com. A text, and I believe they they do now have voice too, as well. So they can send a voice message to us as well. Um and we can reply to you now. So yeah, yes. They they've Buzz Sprout has finally listened to everybody clamoring for some way to reply to these fan mails. Uh so thank you very much, BuzzSprout. Uh the link is at the top of every episode show notes. Uh, follow us on blue sky three to who dot psky.social, or join us on our telegram group chat at three doo. Thanks, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:59

Thank you. I know. Bye bye.