Three Do Who S3E5-River Song

In this episode, the hosts delve into the character of River Song from Doctor Who, exploring her complex timeline, her relationships with the Doctor, and her impact on the series. They discuss the latest news regarding Doctor Who releases, speculate on future episodes, and analyze River's character development across various media. The conversation highlights the challenges of maintaining continuity in River's story and the extensive universe surrounding her character. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the rich lore of the Ood from Doctor Who, discussing their appearances across various media, including mini-sodes, audio dramas, and expanded universe content. They explore the Paternoster Gang's contributions to the Doctor Who narrative and the challenges of maintaining continuity within the franchise. The discussion also touches on the return of Sutekh and the complexities of Doctor Who's continuity, highlighting the creative efforts to keep the universe engaging for fans.

This podcast contains adult language and adult subject matter and is rated M for mature. Listener discretion is advised. 

Closing audio

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Well, welcome to another episode of Three Doo, everyone. Uh with me today, as always, are my besties, James and Mike. How are you guys doing? I'm fine.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

I've misplaced one of my props for tonight. Oh no, it's it's down there. We have an a a strip show coming up later on.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Yes, yes. Comic strip, I'm guessing. Comic strips, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_05 1:03

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. And there's gonna be a really jacked muscled body on display. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

So stay tuned. Uh I mean, hopefully that'll get us all the way to the end of the of the podcasts. We'll get more viewers that way.

SPEAKER_05 1:20

Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

I'm I'm so looking forward to it because there'll be balls on display and everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Oh, wow. All right. Uh let's hope that uh we don't get a YouTube strike for that, but uh we're gonna go with it anyways.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Balls, said the queen. If I had to, I'd be king. Yes. Damn it. I just got that.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Nice. Very good. Uh let's go on to some Who News.

SPEAKER_05 1:48

Please, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Before we get completely thrown off YouTube. All right. So the War Between the Land and the Sea, even though it is not airing yet in the States or in Canada or anywhere else, uh, is out on DVD and Blu-ray in the UK. So if you've got a friend who can ship you the discs, you might be able to watch it. Um, so it says uh bring home the thrilling spin-off series plus a deep dive. Oh, that's a such a horrible joke, of special features from February 2026. Uh, so fans of the acclaimed new series, The War Between the Land and the Sea in the UK, can now relive the breathtaking battle for survival with the latest home entertainment release. Series is available on DVD, three discs, Blu-ray, standard edition, two discs, and a stunning steelbook edition at two disc set, featuring the gripping five episodes and exclusive bonus material.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

So gripping.

SPEAKER_05 2:48

Yes, gripping. So some of the bonus material has now actually been uploaded and given away free by the BBC.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, they're probably getting people to, you know, trying to get people to, you know, bump the numbers a little bit more by saying, oh, maybe we'll go back and rewatch that.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

Um I'm I'm gonna wait till I find out how good the other extras are as to whether or not I um I buy it. Yeah, I I'm kind of torn. I don't think I've I don't think I'm gonna buy it. I say, given that they've put literally the main half hour making or feature onto YouTube already before this came out.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Well, and I already have I already have the video files, so not really much point in in buying it. If I want to rewatch it, I can re-watch it without having to it it'll depend what the extras are for me. Plus, we don't even have a DVD player in the house, so I'd have to watch it, you know, on computer.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

So Oh, and here I am thinking, hmm, maybe it's about time I got rid of some of some of my VHS types.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Well, I mean, we do have everything digitized on a server, so you know we we can watch it from anywhere in the house. It's just yeah, we don't have a DVD player. I've got a DVD drive that I could hook up to my computer if we need to rip something. Rip tear shred. Yes. Rip and rip and shred. Um, so next news topic is uh Doctor Who the movie has been newly restored for 4K in Blu-ray. Experienced the Eighth Doctor's debut in stunning 4K as well as a whole host of special features. Uh in 1996, Palmagan debuted as the Eighth Doctor in Doctor Who, a feature-linked co-production between the BBC and American Fox Network, uh, more commonly known as the TV movie. Uh the 90-minute feature was shot uh on film, and now for the first time, all 219 reels of original film, including almost 200,000 feet, uh, have been pulled from deep storage in the US and meticulously scanned over 21 days and then restored by uh Paul Venazis to provide a definitive 4K experience. So, I mean, that I might buy because the movie's not really as bad as I remembered it to be.

SPEAKER_05 5:02

No, um you know, I mean, okay, there's a lot of extras on there that are already on the discs, but apparently there are going to be new extras as well. Oh, sweet. Um, the trailer that they'd uploaded for it, yeah, you can definitely see the picture quality improvement. Oh, yeah. Um there's a lot of speculation. I mean, apart from the fact this is the 30th anniversary year of the TV movie, um, there's been a lot of speculation for a uh couple of years now about the future of Doctor Who on Blu-ray in terms of classic series. Um because yeah, uh we've got season 21 coming out. Well, it's this month now because in March, aren't we? So season 21 is coming out this month. And in terms of colour seasons, that leaves basically two colour seasons left to come out. Oh wow. Um, and then there are five black and white seasons that have yet to come out. Right. Um, and some of those are not going to be out for a very long time because they need a lot of work and they haven't had animations or anything done for them yet. And then if you look at the discs that have come out and compare them to their original DVD versions, um, there are certain extras which were not ported across from DVD to the Blu-ray season collections. And a lot of those relate to what fans kind of vaguely lovingly call the wilderness years. So basically the 90s and the early 2000s. So there is a lot of speculation that now that they've managed to get the rights and they've cleaned up the TV movie, that we might a few years down the line end up with a Wilderness Years box set.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Hmm.

SPEAKER_05 6:53

Okay, that's kind of cool. There's lots that could go on there. Um, there's lots of documentaries from the DVDs that haven't come out on Blu-ray yet. So there's plenty of material banked. Um it's a question of what they can get the rights to for things like um semi-official fan videos, how they would then handle some of the Doctor Who stuff that was made in the wilderness years, um, if they would do new animations to go with the online stuff or not. So, yeah, there's actually a lot that could go in a box. And as I say, the announc, the shock announcement, because genuinely uh a lot of people were like, whoa. You know, uh the shock announcement that it's coming out in a restored version has once more fueled the wilderness years speculation.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Very cool. All right. Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what they do. I'm sure a lot of people are just a few. Yeah. So shall we roll on into our topic today?

SPEAKER_05 8:01

Um, just one other thing. Okay. What's the thing about it? Um again, it's kind of the the cautionary tale. Uh we're now in March. Um we are now nine months away from the Christmas special. Um there be one? Yes, yes. Well there's definitely, yeah. Um, but there is already a lot of new speculation and rumour uh doing around on social media, um, including alleged titles for the episode and including the idea that they are so unsure of what they're doing, they've written four endings for it. Oh god, no. So yeah. Unless they're gonna show it like clue. Yes. So just beware, um, there is a lot of stuff at the moment which claims to be, you know, the you know, this is what's happening. It's like, no, it isn't uh the only thing you should believe, as always, is stuff from the BBC.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, it's you know, they've they've confirmed there will be a Christmas episode, and that's pretty much it. They haven't confirmed anything else. They haven't confirmed who the doctor's gonna be, they haven't confirmed.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

Billy Piper has kept very quiet about it on social media, she's not been drawn on it.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Well, again, I think that's why she was picked because she's been through this before, and she's you know, as everybody knows, she's you know, reliable as as can be. So Riversong. Riversong. That is our main topic for today. So I'm gonna go ahead and uh roll through my very high-level overview of this wonderful character. Uh, Riversong is, and I'm gonna do preface this with spoilers, uh, right here. For people who have not watched the whole thing, Riversong is Melody Pond's third and final incarnation. River was a child of the TARDIS or a child of the time vortex, meaning that she was an individual with the mark of the time vortex in her DNA, or as River described, time in my blood, time is my blood. Uh, River is also the wife of the doctor, specifically the 11th and 12th incarnations, though she also had encounters with the 10th and 13th doctors, uh, though those memories were later redacted. Uh, River was mostly human, conceived by her parents, Amy Pond and Rory Williams, aboard the TARDIS as it traveled through the time vortex. She was then raised by the Silence, who used her unique DNA to transform her into the first of several proto-time lords, which granted her great strength, knowledge, and understanding of space and time, the ability to regenerate. Uh, she she loved the uh doctor dearly and shared a long relationship with them. River was one of the very few people who knew the doctor's true name, which just about everybody knows. Uh, she's one of the few. Uh, Melody was stolen from her parents as a newborn to become a weapon of the silence in their crusade against the doctor. She killed the 11th doctor, but then broke her mental programming to give the doctor her remaining uh regenerations and revive his corpse after learning that Riversong was uh who she would become. Uh see. The doctor and her parents left her to make her own way in the universe with no connection to the silence or her family's. River became a professor of archaeology. She crossed the doctor's past and many of their incarnations, meeting them at progressively earlier points in their own time stream. The 11th doctor gave her a diary to keep track of their meetings and prevent her from revealing spoilers about the doctor's own future. After a final adventure with the 12th doctor, River and the Doctor spent a 24-year-long night at the singing towers of Deryllium. She died saving the 10th doctor, Donna Noble, Strachman Lux, and 4,022 people saved in the library's computer. The 10th doctor saved River's consciousness digitally in the library's computer system, Cal. Uh, River's data echo persisted for some time as it desired to say goodbye to her husband. So that's a little bit of a background about the Fabulous River song. I'm gonna let Mike go next because I have got so many notes. Oh, yes, I'm sure you do, because there is way more extended than there is in television.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yeah, I um I have limited knowledge of River. I like the character. Yeah, I liked her a lot. I like um, but I I have one problem with her name. Yes, a little. Just one. Yeah. Because Melody Pond, her name should be Song River. Yeah. If they're following the alliteration, but that doesn't sound good. So River Song sounds better, but you know. Um I'm just gonna make comments as you guys talk because that's the best way I like to do this with okay.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

Okay. Um we'll start off with in-series universe stuff then. Yeah, okay. Um and yeah, I I had forgotten just how much bloody Riversong stuff there is out there. Yes. Um, I mean, you know, she she is almost the Daleks of the New Because yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, because her timeline is so completely jumbled up and and everywhere. Uh so difficult to figure out her, you know, her path through time.

SPEAKER_05 13:54

So we're gonna start off with the slight problem with her timeline. Um I've I've mentioned this to a few people over the years, and you can see the kind of like they work out where I'm going with this. Um so yeah, uh, as you've said, officially, yes, she is the daughter of Rory and Amy. Correct. There is a slight problem. Okay. Um so we first meet Riversong in series four in Silence in the Library, Forest of the Dead. Yes. Okay. Where she dies. Um Where she dies, yeah. Spoilers! Doctor Who, of course, yeah. Um and then in series five, you know, Amy joins the 11th Doctor, they eventually pick up Rory, they all travel together for a while, and then Rory dies. Rory dies in uh Hungry Earth. Cold blood slash hungry earth before Amy and Rory are married.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Are you saying that that that she's a uh a child of an unwed mother?

SPEAKER_05 15:10

Oh no, wedlock. No, no, no, because Rory and Amy haven't even had sex in the TARDIS when Rory dies. Yeah, well that's a problem. Okay. When Rory dies, absolutely nothing happens to the timeline. There's no kind of collapsing universe, no distort, you know. It's almost as though Rory dying before Amy became pregnant really didn't matter, and it was just Amy traveling with the doctor that kind of vaguely meant that. Um and bearing in mind that, you know, at the end of the River Song kind of, you know, um uh Time of Angels and um whatever the other bit, Flesh and Stone. Remember that Amy basically tried to bang the doctor. True. And the only reason she held off was because she was gonna get married to Rory. And if Rory's been erased from the timeline and Amy is now traveling with the guy that she wanted to bang, and somehow ended up giving birth to a half-time lord child.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

There is a good possibility that the that the official documentation is wrong.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

We need to get uh we need to get uh the doctor and uh Amy and Rory on Moripovich so we can figure out just what happened.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Right. So now that kind of slight indiscretion is is out of the way. Um uh River is actually um quite prominent in DVD extras. Okay. On I say it's really weird, you know, series five and six, uh around that time where it was the 11th and Amy and Rory, they really put a lot of effort into kind of like the DVD box sets and everything. Um and then suddenly after they left and Clara came along, just everything just kind of went to zero. Uh yeah, it was really bad. But yeah, so on the series six box set, uh I shall say that again with my teeth improperly. The series six box set, um there are actually a whole load of mini episodes that take place in the TARDIS. And two of these feature River. They are called First Night and Last Night. Um and yes, they do kind of vaguely tie in with the whole ongoing River and Doctor love story in reverse type thing. Um and at one point the doctor is in the TARDIS with two rivers. Um she is also in another mini episode on the seventh series box set, this time called Rain Gods. Okay. Uh it was originally gonna be used as an opening to uh the river the wedding of Riversong, but it got kind of changed around and it never made it onto the actual episode, so they've they reworked it and they did it as the box set one. And she even hosts the Monster Files, you know. Um so across the years, the BBC have done various mini featurette type things. Yeah. Um originally they were hosted by Captain Jack, as actually, you know, as in character, Captain Jack. Um, but the Riversong took over uh uh for the Lutter ones. And yeah, um she's in the prequel that was shown online for the wedding of Riversong. And in terms of TV stuff, yeah, I mean the episodes. I don't know. I have issues with them because yeah, if you do kind of watch them in Riversong order, yeah, they don't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

No.

SPEAKER_05 19:40

Not at all. Um there are lots and lots of continuity problems.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Yeah. Well, I mean, if you're trying, and there would be, if you're trying to make two characters meet going this way, I I just can't see how it how continuity can be in any way mapped out correctly.

SPEAKER_05 20:01

Yeah, if you've got the idea of you're gonna do it, you would think that you would kind of like at least on like an A3 sheet of paper jot down your ideas for a timeline and then have the characters, you know. Yeah. But yeah. Uh it is sadly rather obvious that yeah, they're making it up as they go along on that front.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Well, yeah, because if that were the case, they would have introduced the character a lot sooner back in the doctor's past.

SPEAKER_05 20:30

Um yeah. I mean, I can get to that in a minute. I mean, yeah, lovely idea for uh a character. Yeah. And definitely, in absolutely no way whatsoever, ripped off from the big finger story is a game in which the doctor meets for the first time his hero, who apparently knows the doctor of old, and that's because their timelines have gone the wrong way. Anyway, anyway. Um Yeah. River, unfortunately for me, is kind of a copy and paste of lots of little bits of other characters.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah. I mean, you you've mentioned before she's you know, she's got a lot of Bernice in her. Yes. And uh yeah. And quite a few other things.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

I'm not gonna rule that out, actually. I'm not gonna rule out Bernice and River being.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, because yeah, we don't know. Uh I mean, supposedly she only had three regenerations in her. Yeah. But we don't really know what I mean. We know the first was a baby, but we never saw what happened what the baby grew up into.

SPEAKER_05 21:36

That's my next real problem. When you look at the River timeline, there is this huge gap in the timeline. Yeah. Which makes zero sense. Yes. At the end of Impossible Astronaut Day of the Moon, we see her as the little kid in New York, in I think it's I can't know if it's like the very end of 69 or the very start of 70. But basically, she's ill, she's wandering around on her own. Oh, and then she does the whole kind of the firework. And then somehow she ends up in a primary school in England with Rory and Amy.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:19

Um, 30 something years later. So the idea that River is the third body, I've got real problems with. I think she's the fourth.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Yeah. I mean, I I don't know. I mean, I all I saw was, you know, because in my research I saw that she was only supposed to have three regenerations because being a proto-time lord, she doesn't have the ability to regenerate more than that.

SPEAKER_05 22:47

But uh apparently that's not why she's got three, it's because she basically in the wedding, sorry, in Let's Kill Hitler, she gave up all her remaining regeneration energy to save the doctor.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:00

I mean, it's possible she would have had more. Yeah. I've got the sneaking suspicion that there is another one that they could sneak in there to explain how she got from America in 1970s-ish primary school.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Yeah, uh Bernice's kind of a good uh candidate for being one of those uh incarnations.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

Uh no, Bernice's definitely not. Um because Bernice and the River have been in audios together. Oh, well, that but that doesn't we've had all the doctors pretty much in um that and the fact we know that and the fact we know Bernice's life story. Oh, okay. Yeah, it says it would be kind of cool if it ended up being like um right. I'm gonna do these kind of not in the order that I made the notes because I kind of got really distracted when I was doing this. Oh so I'll come back to the bits I did second in a minute, because I've got the list of Riversong audios. Oh, jeez. And I'm sure this is a very long list. Put it this way: there are 15 boxes just of Riversong adventures. Oh wow. There's a box of 10th Doctor and Riversong, there's a box of 9th Doctor and Riversong, she's in uh five episodes of the 8th Doctor series Doom Coalition, she's in one episode of the 8th Doctor series Ravenus, she's in one episode of one of the new unit audios, uh, she's in one of the 8th of March boxes, she's in the Peladon box, she's in the Dalek Universe box, she guests in a once and future episode, and she's in one of the Captain Jack boxes. Nice. And bearing in mind that the original 15 boxes are four C Ds each.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Wow. Well, I mean, that's one of the things I do mention about her uh in all the research I did was that uh you know she does appear to, you know, to uh be tracking the doctor and kind of looking in on him from time to time.

SPEAKER_05 25:14

Now, this is where it gets complicated, and I even by river standards, it gets complicated. Because okay, in the first box, yes, the eighth doctor guests, and yeah, they go out of their way to make sure he's mind-wiped and everything at the end. Um in box two, she guests along with Doctors Six and Seven. In box three, she guests along with Doctor Five, in guest box four, she guests along with the fourth doctor. And by the time she then crops up in Doom Coalition and Ravenous and all of the other ones, I think they've given up on trying to explain why she she andor the doctor forget the encounter.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yeah, uh my my question is going back to the eighth doctor, how on earth did they manage to mind wipe him? Because he is incredibly difficult to erase memories from. Are you kidding?

SPEAKER_05 26:15

Well, I mean the eighth doctor, who on at least four or five occasions gets amnesia.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Okay, yeah, I guess you're right with with him, yes. But we've seen it, we've seen incarnations of the doctor who are very mentally strong and and resistant to that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 26:33

It is getting to be something of a joke because by the time we get to box nine, she's guesting with the third doctor and working with Unit. Okay. Okay, yeah. I mean, it's um box six. Box six is a really neat one because they basically slot adventures for Riversong into existing stories. Oh. So there is a Riversong adventure that takes place alongside Talents of Wing Chang. There's a Riversong Adventure that takes place alongside Carnival of Monsters. So yeah, they they get creative. Um, it's very strange that it's not until the seventh box that they kind of let Riversong cut loose a bit. That's the first one where only one story has a link to a TV story. Oh, okay. The first six boxes all have very strong links. Either the Doctor, uh, box five, she encounters four different versions of the master. You know. Box seven is the first one where she's allowed to have three adventures that are just river song adventures.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

They toy with the four.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

I'm gonna have to look at the into the ones where she's you know, encounters the master. I can only imagine that that was an interesting time.

SPEAKER_05 27:55

Oh, yeah. Um the one that I'm really gonna recommend is the first of their slightly more adventurous ones. Box 11 is called Friend of the Family.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 28:09

And it's not four stories, it's one story over four discs. Oh, wow. And it is actually another one of those stories where big things should go, oh, TV, you think you can do timey, travelly, wibbly wobbly stuff. No, this is how you do it. Um, Friend of the Family is an absolutely brilliant time travel story. River is at the heart of it, there's no TV gimmick related to it. It's a br brilliant story, and it really is kind of like, yeah, that's how River could be, you know. Yeah. Um, and yeah, as I said, it's you know, we're now getting into the realms of she's doing box sets with Ace and Teagan. Um, they're no longer called the Diary of River Song because they're now featuring River Song set after her death. She's now in a cloned body of herself. Oh, okay. But then again, on TV, in The Name of the Doctor, we had River somehow leave that computer world and and um sorry. And yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

So it's really confusing, you know. Yeah, no, she's got a Dalek-like time stream.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

Yeah, they're great as individual stories. Um, the three that in the box, which is the 10th Dr. Enrique song, they're three really good stories. Kind of like um they're not like traditional stories. Um there's twists to each of them. Um so yeah. But yeah, it's you look at how much big things you've done with her. Yeah. And it's like, yeah. Um, so yeah, and I thought, okay, what else could I find for River's song? Oh my god, right. Then I then I made the mistake of going to books and written fiction. Um and my list, by the way, just ends with etc, etc. As it should. As it well should, yes. Um, because of course this month, by the way, uh Alex Kingston, you know, the Riversong actress, yes, is bringing out her own Riversong book. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Oh nice, yes.

SPEAKER_05 30:32

Yeah. Uh she's joining the ranks of Bonnie Langford and Sophie Aldred, who've written for their characters. Um, she's already had a short story collection called The Legends of Riversong. She's in a book called The Ruby's Curse, she's got The Angel's Kiss, which is based on uh Angels Take Manhattan. She's you know, in the Mr. Men books that they did, the spoof Mr. Men book, she's even in Doctor 11th, um, she's in the Titan Comics, she's in all the short story collections, yes. Like, yeah. Right. And then on to the bit that really caught me off guard. And I'm not gonna do too much on this because this is actually gonna be my playlist for next month. Okay. Okay. And I'm taking the words more literally than they have ever been used because she is in one, two, three, four, five computer games. Wow. Including one where you can play as Riversong. Oh, neat. Okay, yeah. Um, so I'm not gonna say too much about that, but I'll say now, to save me forgetting it at the end, we're going in terms of computer games for my playlist next month because again, it's far more involved and far more interesting um than I'd realized. Right. So, yeah, there's a lot of computer games out there, and the good news is I found ways to play most of them. Oh, excellent. So, yeah, we'll actually have a proper, a proper gaming session, as it were. Alright. Um, so yeah. I mean, Riversong, you can spend a stupid amount of time um trying to work out how all these stories fit together. Oh, yeah. I think really you just have to go with the kind of it's Riversong. The whole joke of Riversong is it doesn't make sense. Because if they can't get it right in the TV episode, what chance did the the kind of the extension?

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Well, I mean, for me, I started trying to when when the character first came out, I started trying to track you know her timeline with the doctor. And after about the the second episode, I was like, uh, you know what? I'm just gonna watch them as standalone. It's fun to see Alex playing River and just leave it at that because if if you try to really wrap your mind around it, it breaks your head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

Mm-hmm. Anything else, anyone wants to add? Because yeah, my brain is molten.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Sorry. No, not not really. I mean, if she's a great character, I have to say that. I do enjoy whenever she's on the screen. She's a great actress.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Oh, yeah. Alex is amazing. She's and apparently she's quite nice to work with, too. I haven't seen anything, yeah. I haven't seen anything bad about uh about working with her. Everybody seems to enjoy uh her onset, and and she's uh by all accounts a delightful person. And she is down to appear in Doctor Who whenever they want her. So that's always nice when when an actress is willing to come back for a show that you know bounces around as much as Doctor Who does.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yeah. Well, the nice thing about her coming back to Doctor Who whenever she wants is she could be playing anything as River Song in the Doctor Who universe. You know, if they could just throw something together and say, Here, you want to come do this as River?

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Sure. Yeah. She's numerous occasions I've watched uh interviews with her where she's like, Yeah, I'll go back anytime they want. All they have to do is ask. You know. So that's that's fantastic. I I like an actress who's, you know. Yeah. Who uh and we'll do that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

Congratulations to her as well for keeping going. Apparently, she's had some major health problems, which she very deliberately kept out of the public eye because she didn't want it to kind of, you know, become the focus. So she's an amazing woman by every metric that there is.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah, yeah. Uh that that is definitely true. She's like I said, I have never seen anybody say anything bad about her. It's always just oh, great things, you know. She's a lot of fun to work with, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

And she's been in a lot of stuff outside of Doctor Who. Oh, she's massive, she's yeah, yeah. Um credits to her game.

SPEAKER_05 35:15

And Big Finish, um, they did a whole load of what they called Big Finish originals quite some time ago now, where they did, I think it was about five or six different box sets, which weren't Doctor Who weren't anything kind of, but they were just kind of like new dramas. And she took the lead in one of those as well. And apparently that is amazingly good. I just haven't ever got around to listening to it because there's too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Just too much.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Well, you know, 60 years of this is gonna, it's definitely gonna be a lot of a lot of content, and that's just the you know, quasi-official content. Yeah. Yeah, you can really get deep into the weeds if you start going to the fan-produced stuff, and that's just yeah, crazy. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

So, speaking of not TV stuff, who who wants their playlist first? Do we want the Partner Noster gang first or the ood first?

SPEAKER_00 36:15

I'll I'll let you go with the ood first for Mike.

SPEAKER_05 36:18

Okay. Because I'm gonna freely admit, when you said oo'd last month, I nearly had a panic attack because I'm thinking, shit, is that yeah, there's only television stuff. It's like, no, no, no, no, I've got two sides of notes. Oh, wow. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah. I knew you'd dig up something for it, but I didn't I didn't realize that there was that much for the ood.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

Yeah. And I am gonna freely admit there's some of this stuff that I probably should get round to reading kind of stuff, but there is a very strong reason why I haven't, and I'll get to that in the second half of this. Okay. Okay. Um so going back to TV stuff to start off with, um, before even the mini sodes on the DVDs, series two actually had some online prequels for it called the TARDISODs. Um now, really irritating. As far as everyone knows, there are no plans for all kinds of reasons. Um, some technical, some less salacious, some less pleasant rather, you know. Um, why series one to four will never get kind of like a full reissue with new extras. Right. Which is a shame because Series 2, every single episode, had like a 30 or 40 second new scene which was uploaded to the BBC website um as a trail for that week's episode. Right. They are knocking around on YouTube, but the trouble is because they've been recorded from a real player clip which is on like 320 by 240. Yeah, they're pretty low quality. Yeah, pretty low quality. Um, which is a shame because they I would love to see kind of like an H, you know, uh a high definition release of them. Yeah, or even standard definition. Stephen's definitely um standard would be good. Yes, yeah, 320 is half resolution. Um but yeah, the ood were actually in the Tardisodes for their episodes, so there is already bonus video content for them. Um and really lovely. Um again, they are all over the extras. I just hadn't twigs. Yeah. So there is an ood monster file, and that's one of the ones that Captain Jack presents.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

Um for series seven part one, you know, the one basically which was the last ones with Amy and Rory. Before um it was shown, there was a well, technically it was one episode, one mini sode, but it was shown in five parts to build up to it. Um, where an ood turns up at the pond's residence. Nice. Um there are reasons, but yeah. It's called Pond Life, and again, it's all over YouTube, it's very easy to find. It's one of the one of the things that, yeah, modern fans have finally realized, you know, don't rely on the BBC to keep this stuff online, download it, keep it. Yeah. Yeah, yes. Um the most lovely one though for me, um, as part of the confidential series, okay, which was the behind the scenes making of uh they did it for the first six series, and then it kind of changed format, then it disappeared, then it came back, and yeah. Um, but they ran various script writing competitions. Okay. And I think it's the confidential episode called When Time Froze. But basically, that contains a mini sode written by school kids called Death is the Only Answer, and that has ouds in.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Wow, um School Kids in England are are are a little dark. Yeah, the title is not what I would expect from school children.

SPEAKER_05 40:36

Um right. In terms of audio, there's actually again more than I realized uh for ood on audio. One of the uh episodes of the first box set, Jenny the Doctor's Daughter, has got ouds in. So if you are kind of you know wanting to know what happened after the Doctor's Daughter, why she's never turned up in the series again, and everything like that, yeah, you know, there's an ood in the first one. Unusually, um they're in four episodes of the Warmaster box set. Oh wow, okay. Um and yeah, given that, you know, the Warmaster was essentially technically on screen as Derek Jacobi for kind of like you know five minutes at most, because before that he was Professor Yana, the number of Master War Master Warmaster box sets there are is ridiculous. But the ood are in each of the four episodes of Master of Callus. Okay. Okay. Um Torchwood. The Torchwood main range, you know, the kind of like the one episode things that they do. Yeah. They did an ood trilogy. Oh. Wow. Called one of them was called Odyssey. The third one was called Oracle. The middle one was called Ooh Done It. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

I mean, they could have gone with Oudice Pun at the first, but yeah, but much better pun, but yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:21

Um they are also in various of the computer games. So again, I'm not gonna say too much about those. Um there's a lot of very strange history with the computer games, which I've accidentally found out about because of River and the Oud. Um yeah. Um, right. Those are the ones that I'm willing to say, yeah, they're the good playlist. Okay, cool. Now we have a slight interesting diversion, which is still very oud heavy, so I'm not going off topic. Um, and it ties in with something that's coming out this year as well. Oh. Yeah. So this year, of course, uh, we've mentioned it a couple of times. We've gone very quiet, actually. Short circuit. No, sorry, circuit breaker.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

Um, the multi-platform thing, apparently featuring the Fugitive Doctor uh unit, black archives and stuff. This is the third, was it the third one of them they've done? There's Circuit Breaker, there was Doomsday. Doomsday, not many people really enjoyed it because basically everyone was put off by the first one called Time Lord Victorious.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:40

Um yeah. I don't want to really necessarily decide describe it as a clusterfuck of awfulness.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

But you're going to.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

But things like that after I take a drink of water. I almost did a spit take a lot of my computer. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

I asked someone to explain Time Lord Victorious to me, and they said, Nope, not got a clue. Um It's an eighth, ninth, and tenth Doctor thing. Um set in the dark times, and yeah. The trouble is they made it overly complicated. They didn't release stuff in kind of like a nice logical order. The idea was that there were like strands that you could follow from it, and you know. Um, but they even released part of it as a t-shirt design. With an ood on, by the way. Part of the ood. Um it was ood heavy. There was a character in it called Brian the Oud. Brian. That's such an oo' name. I wish I was joking, by the way. Brian the Ood, who is a lethal assassin. Okay. It's kind of worrying because Doomsday was also about a lethal assassin. You know, I'm just like thinking, hmm.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Um could we have the fanfic uh crossover Life of Brian the Ood?

SPEAKER_05 45:16

I wish they had, because it would have made more sense than what I've learned about Time Lord Victorious. Um right. There are easily available bits of Time Lord Victorious, and there are difficultly available bits. Brian the Ood is in quite a lot of the easily available stuff. Um he is in an audio drama called He Kills Me, He Kills Me Not.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 45:46

Uh He's also in a drama called Minds of Magnox. Uh he's in two of the books, The Knight, the Fool, and the Dead, and All Flesh is Grass. Um, but yeah, trying to work out how all of these things linked together, just no idea. Um, I mean there were even Daleks, and there's a Dalek web series part of Time Love Victorious. Uh there was a Blu-ray box set that kind of tried to claim that certain classic series stories were part of Time Lord Victorious, and everyone was going, What? Um so to get to end the ood list on a positive note, because I don't want to be down on the ood, um, they were real they were really popular.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Oh, yes, definitely. Uh I mean it's a it's an interesting character with uh uh kind of interesting backstories and people like them. I like them.

SPEAKER_05 46:49

Yeah, to the extent that as part of the Doctor Who files, there was a volume with the ood. And again, loads of test your knowledge, loads of kind of diagrams with pointy arrows saying what different bits of the ood are. Um ood bits. Oud bits, yeah. And then there is a full-blown short story at the back, you know. Oh wow. So there was a you know quite a lot in there. Um again, part of the really fun era. We got loads of books like this, which is this is creatures and demons. There were six of these spacecraft and space stations and stuff. And if I can find the right page, if I knew my alphabet, it would help. Um no, they're not actually in order. Oh, it's because it's under Impossible Planet, not under O for Ood, that's why. Um you've even got things like the original concept drawings for the ood. Oh wow, that and oh'd action figure.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Oud action figure.

SPEAKER_05 47:57

Yeah. Wanna see something really terrifying? Okay. So his clothes actually come off and underneath.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

He is quite muscly underneath.

SPEAKER_05 48:11

He is ripped. He presents his ball to you. But yes, there is the the three-doo who exclusive, your topless ood for the day.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

There you go.

SPEAKER_05 48:24

With his ball hanging out. With his ball hanging out, actually, even more impressive, his ball, I mean it certainly used to be, is vaguely magnetic. Vaguely magnetic. But yeah, it's what's even more disturbing is that they did a range of these. There's this one, there was the Dalek human mutant, there's a tenth doctor one. They've all got exactly the same body. Of course they do.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Well, that explains why the why why in their first appearance they were so you know effective at getting rid of people.

SPEAKER_05 49:04

Yeah. But yes, it is deeply worrying, and I seem to remember as well. Yeah. This guy is roided. Look at his shoulder. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

Nice. Yes. They just took some uh old stock of G.I. Joe and put new heads on it.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

Yeah. Um, yeah. Magic oude. Magic ooud. Right. Nice. Okay. And part of Nostergang. Right. Again, I knew there was a bit out there, but it again caught me by surprise. Um again, brilliant though, because it's new series stuff. Uh they have three mini sods. Okay. Uh, one acts as a sequel to The Battle of Demons Run called Two Days Later. And that explains how Strax actually ends up as part of the Part and Nostal Gang. Ah, okay. Um, and then there were two that were done for the Snowmen. The Matt Smith Christmas special with the original version of Clara, uh, including one called Vastra Investigates. Um they had their own two-part comic strip in Doctor Who magazine. Basically, kind of they I don't know if they didn't like time it right or something, or if there were delays or something, but basically, you know, the 11th Doctor stuff ended, but they weren't ready to start running the 12th Doctor strips, so they ran a two-part DWM comic strip called The Crystal Throne, which was the Part of Nostergang. Um in cinemas, the cinema-only prequel, but again, there's knockoff copies of it around. Um, there is a Parton Ostergang prequel to Deep Breath. Okay. Um, because of course, you know, that was when Stephen Moffat was trying to turn Doctor Who into a rock and roll world tour kind of thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, so there were cinema bits and everything, but there was a prequel in the cinema called uh prequel to Deep Breath. Um there is a 12th Doctor book called Silhouette, which is brilliant, by the way. Um, you know, there's not many of the new series adventure novels that I would actively recommend, recommend, but Silhouette is definitely one of them. Um my god, right, and then we hit audio. Right. So um there were four boxes in the mini-series called Heritage. Okay, okay, four boxes of four stories, so basically it's like a 16-part story about the Parthenoster gang. Um won't say too much because it's actually got quite a few twists and turns. Um they then did a second set of four boxes. There isn't an overarching title as far as I can tell, but they form one big story. So you've got, you know, a pretty decent set of just Parsons stuff. Um they did two boxes to celebrate the 8th of March. Do you know what that is? It's International Women's Day. Ah, okay. So twice they've done boxes um featuring prominent female characters from Doctor Who. Madame Vastra got uh one of those. She also guests in one of the Churchill Years boxes. Uh she also guests in one of the Wantch and Future episodes called The Martian Invasion of Planetoid 50. Um it gets a bit kind of weird because this is why I messaged Derek Early saying, Did you want the past Nostergang or did you want Madame Vastra? Because actually, Madame Vastra and Strax are known to have their own adventures. Oh, okay. Um so quite a few years ago now, there was a podcast series called Doctor Who Redacted. Yes, uh done by Juna Dawson, very LGBTQ heavy, and Madame Vastra, not the gang, but Madame Vastra was in four episodes of that. Oh wow, okay, okay, yeah. Um and then everyone was in the Titan Comics uh crossover big event five issue thingy called The Lost Dimension. Okay, oh yeah, yeah. Um there is also a book called Devil in the Smoke, which is a part Monster Gang book. Um Strax though turns up in a couple of things without the others. Um Strax actually makes it into one of the Missy box sets. And then it's really quite sad because I mean I've talked about the Jay Go and Lightfoot range quite a bit. Um To me, it almost feels like they did the Partomaster Gang stuff to replace Jay Go and Lightfoot when it was clear that age was not on their side, right? But there is actually a one-off release called Jaygo, Lightfoot and Strax. Oh nice, you know, um, so it's not even part of a box set, it is a standalone release, Jay Go, Lightfoot and Strax. And yeah, that's just great fun. Yeah. Two of the most incompetent people around and Professor Lightfoot, you know. Um that you might think is the end of it. But no. There are 24 other entries for you. Oh wow. Yeah. Um and this is something that I wholeheartedly approve of and I lament the lack the loss of massively. Um basically, have I got one of the relevant issues, but yeah. Okay, Doctor Who Adventures. Okay. Um you got Doty Magazine, which is the main one. You had things like Battles in Time and Monster Invasion, which was the trading cards one and stuff like that. This was aimed at really young kids. It was the one that had the free gifts every month and everything. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, by the way, they did do an ood beard as a free gift at one point. Um but, oh, funnily enough, just one I happened to pull at random off the shelf. Genuinely at random. Yeah. Loads more ood data. Um, in 24 issues of Doctor Who Adventures, they had Partonostagang tales. Not comic strip, but proper text fiction. So the Partonostagang were used to try and help young kids get into reading.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Well, most of them were done as well as I mean that's definitely a good thing. I really like that as that you do that.

SPEAKER_05 56:39

Yeah, most of them were done as um extracts from Jenny's diary. Okay. One of them was a Strax Field report. Um and yeah, again, from the era of fun. They did two of these books. The brilliant book. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um nice. I wish they'd done more, but say there was something that happened at the BBC that prov that seemed to kill off a lot of the fun stuff. And what this was, this was the official guide to the hit TV series for the year. Not an annual, not a kind of a coffee table book, you know, yeah, and so along with kind of guides to the episodes and stuff like that, you also have uh if I can find the there you go, right. So to go along with A Good Man Goes to War, you've got kind of letters from Madame Bastra to her lovely Jenny. You've got her appearance on stage with Henry Gordon Jago. Um I'm gonna so and yeah, two very short extracts because these are lovely. Okay. Egypt, 1881. My dearest Jemmy, my sincerest thanks for the new shirts. They are delightful. Such wonderful cotton. My compliments also on the new gun which has also arrived safely. I've killed three Turks with it already and hope to dispatch some more this afternoon. Oh jeez. Why not? And the other one, again, I mean that that's just like the opening of the letter. It's a much longer. Right. Dear Doctor, my career on the stage is over. You were right. These apes have a thirst uh a thirst for spectacle, which is tiresome. The final straw was a suggestion that I try and catch bullets with my tongue, which seemed both unwise and unsavory. Also, I may have eaten one of the lions, which did not make me entirely popular with the company. That would do it. So, yeah. Partnostergang wise and ood-wise, there is a lot of little bits out there that are just lovely. I miss I miss this kind of it's not even expanded universe, it's just kind of like little snippets. Right. Tiny little bits of creativity that that you can believe the characters had a life outside of, you know, uh just a little bit of oh, I'm thinking of you.

unknown 59:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Type of thing.

SPEAKER_05 59:26

Yeah. Right. So the mysterious one that I said last time for mine continuity. Because I I figured that, you know, with the two of you, you're picking kind of you know sensible things. You know, it was up to me to kind of uphold the true geekery.

unknown 59:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 59:48

Um and yeah, so I've I've what I've done is mostly I got inspired um because on my marathon rewatch at the moment, uh, we've just hit spy fall. Okay. And I suddenly thought, oh shit, you know, I remember at the time there was a big thing made about Spyfall having a guest appearance by Ada Lovelace. You know, the mother of computing the the enchanters of numbers. Um because everyone was saying, um, hold on, wasn't she in one of the fourth doctor audios as well? So what I've put together is a list of mostly stories from new who that have slight problems when you go to the expanded universe. Um so basically, you can I either go down TV continuity or you can go down decent conted universe continuity. Yeah. Um a couple of these I have mentioned before, but I think kind of, yeah, it's it's an interesting list to say the least. Um so yeah, Ada Lovelace. Uh she is in a two-part stuff-part story featuring the fourth doctor called The Enchantress of Numbers. Okay. Okay. Not completely incompatible. Plus, of course, the usual get-out clause for these is expanded universe stuff for classic doctors basically takes place before the Time War. And it's only when you get an idiot writing that they try and mix and match the two. Twice upon a time.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:40

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:43

Um, there's gonna be a few other classic ones that kind of contradict, uh, which we'll get to in a minute. Um, so yeah, I'm on Spyfall, which means, of course, uh that in a few episodes, well, five or six episodes time, I've got the haunting of Villa Diodati.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:02

Um which has a guest star of. Do you remember?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

I do not.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:11

Mary Shelley. Oh. Oh wow. Nice. Um, and this is I actually discovered there was more to this than even I realized. It was this was the second one that I kind of put on my list. Because there are actually four big things releases where the eighth doctor travels with Mary Shelley as a companion.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Oh, yeah, because we you we mentioned that last month.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

I remember that, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:36

Um there's a one-part story in Company of Friends, um, which is Mary's story, which basically is Mary being inspired to create Frankenstein. Right. Um at the end of which she did go off with the doctor, and people thought, oh, that's just that, you know. And then a few years down the line, they did three four-part stories. Um there is a certain ambiguity to the end of the third one as to whether or not it contradicts Mary's story from Company of Friends. Company of Friends suggests that they travelled together for a very long time. The third one in the Mary Shelley trilogy suggests that Mary walked out on the Doctor quite quickly. Okay. Um They even, by the way, those three four-part stories, they have a special arrangement of the theme tune just for those three. Oh. Yeah. What I didn't realize till I was checking is that actually the Tenth Doctor also inspired Mary Shelley to create Frankenstein. In the Battles in Time comic strip, there is a one-part story called The Creative Spark, where the Tenth Doctor accidentally inspires her to write Frankenstein. Frankenstein. Yeah. Well done. Right. Um, so I'm gonna save my real bitch fest till the very end. Um the one that wound me up most was the toy maker. Because the toy maker says, Oh, this is my third meeting with you, it's our final meeting and everything. It's like bollocks, was it? Um there's a there's there's quite a lot of toy maker stuff in the extended universe. I mean, he's as bad as River and the Daleks. Not quite. He's never had 15 box sets, but I want to recommend I want to recommend two particular audios that he is in. Um there is one called The Magic Mousetrap. Okay, which is absolutely full-on Toymaker classic action. Nice. And then from the Companion Chronicles range, there is actually a sweet little two-parter called Solitaire, which very, very briefly features the Doctor, but is mostly the Eighth Doctor's companion, Charlotte Pollard, up against the Toymaker herself. Oh there are other Toy Maker stories in audio, there are other Toy Maker stories in the novels. Um, and yeah, that kind of did wind me up a little bit. Yeah. Um, and then kind of you know, I thought, well, is it fair to just pick on the new series?

unknown 1:05:37

Like, no.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:38

Um, I've got to spread it around. I've got to spread spread the muck around, yeah. Spread it around. So Big Fingish uh very, very early on in their run, did a superb Sixth Doctor and Evelyn story called The Spectre of Lanyan Moor. Apart from the fact it's a really good story in its own right, it's also the first official meeting of the Sixth Doctor and the Brigadier. Oh, okay. Unfortunately, the BBC Past Doctor adventure, Shadow in the Glass, is also the first official meeting of the Sixth Doctor and of Brigadier. Yeah. Um, very controversial book, by the way. Uh, I'm not gonna say too much. Uh Hitler is a guest character, but Hitler is not the controversial one. Oh. Oh okay. Yeah, there's a darkness to the plot, which don't think anyone thought would happen. Yeah. Um, and then Big Fingish. I've mentioned I've definitely mentioned this one before. Uh Big Fingish did a story called Blood Heat, where the Sixth Doctor and Evelyn ended up meeting Darwin. And then in one of those really pamphlet-style books, you've got the Silurian survival where the Tenth Doctor meets Darwin. They do have the good grace to state, though, that the Tenth Doctor is a little hazy on things and thinks it might have been in an alternate timeline. Um Big Fingish, take the bronze medal for cocking things up.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:28

Only the bronze.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:29

Only the bronze.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Well, we have we we still have uh you know books and television, so and other media.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:36

Yeah. Um okay, mini spoilers. Uh The Boys at Time Forgot has a guest appearance by Adric. Mm-hmm. I'm not gonna go into not gonna say any more. Um but yeah, they make it clear that Adric did not actually die at the end of Earthshock. And that is in the big fingish main monthly range. As then, many years later, is a trilogy of stories that starts with one called Tartarus, where the doctor is seen to be grieving for Adric and trying to deal with his processing and everything. Um, and then once the main range had ended and they started doing just like themed box sets and stuff, they even did one called The Last Resort, which has the Doctor dealing with the ghost of Adric literally. Okay. Now, you might think that okay, not so much of an issue. But the trouble is, going back to The Boy that Time Forgot, it's the middle part of a trilogy of stories. And if that trilogy of stories didn't happen for whatever reason, unfortunately, many years after, they then bring one of the characters from that trilogy back to set up a new trilogy, which then introduces a new companion to the sixth doctor. So, yeah, alternate timelines of go-go. Right. In second place, right, sorry, I'm just gonna reach across and try not to swear as I pull this out because my elbow is really starting to hurt now. We have the very first Doctor Who annual. Um and you might be thinking, if it's the very first one, how the hell can it cause continuity problems?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:44

Well, this is Doctor Who.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:47

The clue is on the front there is a Zarbie.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

Okay.

unknown 1:09:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:53

Oh yeah. From and uh, and then also a monopter from The Web Planet. Um, The Web Planet, the TV episode, makes it absolutely crystal clear that it's the first time that the Doctor has been to Vortice, the first time he's met Zarbie and everything. This book also features two versions of the Doctor's first trip to Vortice. Including the one where he realizes that the atmosphere is so bad he has to invent the atmospheric density jackets that you see in the web planet. So, congratulations, Doctor Who's first annual, you get silver. Right. Gold medal for fuckwittery. Okay. Goes to Mr. Russell T. Davis.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

Okay. I mean, who who else could screw up Doctor Who as much as Russell T has?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:00

And it is Sutec.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:03

Oh god, yes. Totally agree.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:05

No, no, no, no, no, no. You do not you don't know the half of it. Um so yeah, if you've if you've not seen the episodes, um basically it transpires that Sutek's been buggering himself with the TARDIS Rufus and Dildo since Pyramids of Mars, and no one has ever noticed it. So there is a four-part, well, two two-part stories called Kill the Doctor and The Age of Sutec, in which the fourth doctor discovers that Sutek survived and ends up killing him. Um you've then got the seventh Doctor, who in one of the box sets where Benice is the main character, and the seventh Doctor and Ace are essentially her companions, they have a four-part adventure with Sutek where they end up killing Sutec. Um you've got the entirety of the second year of the 10th Doctor comic strips, which lead up to a climactic battle with the 10th Doctor and killing Sutek. Um and there is even prior to the TV version, there was even uh a semi-official uh graphic novel called Gods and Monsters featuring the death of Sutek.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

Well, he's one of those gods that just dies all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:30

Um it's just of all the gods to bring back, you have to bring back the one that the expanded universe has killed off four or five times already.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:46

So congratulations, Sutec. You take the uh the golden dog tag. Gold metal. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:52

That's any problem.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:53

Yeah, you would think he was a cat with as many lives as he's had. Right? Yeah. Um, and that's before you even get into the problems between those episodes and pyramids of Mars, which, yeah. Right. So, as I have said, next month I am gonna be using talking about computer games. Um because, yeah, there's a lot more of them than you realize, and it's a more so in some ways than Doctor Who itself as a TV thing, they're a fascinating social history.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

Um Eric, what is your playlist gonna be? Uh well, I'm gonna go for one of the doctor's very first companions, his granddaughter Susan.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:42

You can then maybe watch the shooty episodes again to find out what the fuck they were doing with Susan. No, you don't have to. I mean, you can always just read the synopsis. No, I'll read the interview with Carol Ann Ford that says what they were planning on doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:55

Well, yeah, I would actually I actually would think that would be probably good.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:59

Yeah. And Mike, what would you like as your playlist? I'm gonna go down a very obscure path and ask about the Lupari.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:11

You do realize that that's got the potential to end up as incredibly X-rated. Really more the better.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:20

Yes, really. Okay, well, I think we picked a good one then. Yep, right.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:27

Excellent. I just not many stories, but what there are you're gonna love. They're they're a little spicy, yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:36

Okay, and so next month's episode is going to be about bad wolf. Ooh.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:45

Okay. Now that's got the potential to be interesting because of course you I take it you do know what one of the rumors is about Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

Uh I did not hear that rumor, but you know, I it's been on my mind lately, and I was like, we should do an episode about Bad Wolf.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:01

So who was Bad Wolf in terms of Well, of course, yeah. Yeah, we know. And who is now at the TARDIS? Billy Piper. Billy Piper, yeah. Yes. So yeah, absolutely ideal one to do the bad wolf plot arc. Uh some fun stuff. Are we just doing bad wolf or are we doing nine and ten as a whole?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

Well, uh just the bad wolf portions of it. I mean, but which is a lot of nine and ten, truthfully. Yeah. I mean, that was that was um it was an interesting story arc, uh, to say the least.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:39

And again, it harks back to an era when they really pulled the stops out on the effort front.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:46

Yes. Yes. Uh I mean, I it was really good. There was actually, you know, bad wolf graffiti showing up in real life in places uh that yeah, that that was kind of uh an interesting marketing ploy, I thought. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:04

Yeah. So next, so this week it was this month it was naked ood, and next month it's doggy style. Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:14

I keep picking the weird ones. I don't know why. I keep that sound. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:20

All right. Well, thanks for joining us on another journey through time and space with the doctor. Remember, you can support the show by liking and subscribing on YouTube or subscribing on BuzzSprout for as little as$3 a month. You can send us an email at thredo at gmail.com or a text from thredoo.buzzsprout.com. The link is at the top of every episode's show notes. Please, if you uh want us to reply to you on the BuzzSprout uh fan mail thing, please give us uh you know a way to contact you and the episode you're you know talking about. Um follow us on bluesky thredoo.bsky.social or join us on telegram group chat at three do. And that's it for now. We'll see you guys next month. Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:05

Bye bye.